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  • #16
    But who was the bad guy? He was James J. Dolan. There are a few pictures of him. This is one that I found and it is unknown:

    J.J. Dolan:



    J.J.'s side won the Lincoln County War. The side Billy the Kid was on lost and it was taps for the Chisum family. It was Sallie Chisum who gathered this collection of tintype photographs that I ran across in a little antique store in Oregon.

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    • #17
      What did Sallie Chisum look like? Was she pretty? Well, she was the apple of every cowpoke's eye from Texas to the New Mexico/Arizona border.

      Here is Sallie herself. The photo was hers. She kept it for most of her life eventually giving it to her niece who moved to Oregon after her father died in 1919.

      Sallie Lucy Chisum ca. 1878:

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      • #18
        Sallie Chisum was actually very blond. Tintype photography doesn't always show hair color very close to the living article. She was probably 5'3". Blue eyes and small teeth. Her complexion was fair.

        Billy Bonney thought she was about it. They danced together. Billy was a great dancer, mostly square dances. They cooled off sitting in rocking chairs underneath the stars on her uncle's porch.

        Sallie called Billy, "Willi". He was great fun to be with. He had an energetic laugh and knew a million funny stories. He loved to sing and play the guitar. He was good looking in a boyish sort of way. The girls were crazy about him too. Sallie found him fun to be with. But she never had any serious feelings for him. Billy was already a killer, and she must have known it.

        Historians have written that Sallie had a photograph of Billy Bonney, later Billy the Kid. She did have a photo of him, and even repaired it when it started to fall apart. She kept if for almost her entire life.

        Here it is:



        This photo has been flipped from the original tintype, so Billy looks as he did in life. He parted his hair on the left side. This photo was probably taken at about the same time as the famous photo of him, here is a detail of that photograph:


        The two pictures of Billy, I think, may have been taken within a hair cut of one another...even the curls on his forehead match. Billy had wavy, almost curly light brown hair, blue eyes, fair skin, full cheeks and buck teeth.
        Last edited by majormack; 08 Sep 13, 11:10.

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        • #19
          thanks for sharing majormack

          “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein

          The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

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          • #20
            That was quite a find, Major. Those pics are priceless. I saw some photos of Dolan's store and Tunstall's which are still standing as museums I think.
            "A common thug can kill someone, but it takes the talents of an intelligence service to make a murder appear to be a suicide or accident death." -- James Angleton, CIA, Chief of Counterintelligence.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by unclefred View Post
              That was quite a find, Major. Those pics are priceless. I saw some photos of Dolan's store and Tunstall's which are still standing as museums I think.
              Yes, indeed the Dolan and Tunstall stores still stand. A trip to Lincoln is a "trip". The place is little changed, though no longer a town. It is just part of the county, population of about 35. Most of the building are derelict, and many would have been familiar to Billy Bonney, whose real name was William Henry McCarty.

              The little burg of Lincoln runs along a slightly curving road, the highway today, for about a mile, houses of adobe and wood on either side. Large gaps between buildings, many are boarded up and surrounded by heavy thickets of greenery and some cottonwood trees. The road runs about east and west. Along the north side and back about 100 yds flows a little creek that during the kid's day was a much more substantial waterway. It has sense been dammed upstream and reduced to a trickle. The National Parks service keeps the Dolan and Tunstall stores in good condition, and they look nearly new.

              Here they are:

              The Dolan store. I should have stood back and taken another.


              Here is the Tunstall store. The steel shutters are still in place. I was built as a fortress as well as a store:



              Billy shot the jailor and much despised deputy, Ameredith "Bob" Olinger from an upstairs room in the Dolan store, where he was being held, chained to his bunk. When I took this picture, I was standing where the kid would have stood when he took the shot, using the deputies own heavily loaded double barreled shotgun. Back then there was a fence that ran along sidewalk that had a gate in it just below the window. Olinger would have been standing about between the two trees you see down there, when the kid pulled the triggers:


              Here is the picture of Bob Olinger that I found within Sallie's collection of tintypes. I think the women is a teenage Lily Casey...not sure tho. She said that she had dinner with Bob the day before Billy blew him away. She also said that they were engaged.

              Bob Olinger and maybe Lily Casey:

              Last edited by majormack; 08 Sep 13, 11:47.

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              • #22
                Here is a well known and often published photograph of Olinger. Is this one and the one Sallie collected, shown in the post above, the same guy? I'll let you decide:



                They are the same guy.
                Last edited by majormack; 08 Sep 13, 11:49.

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                • #23
                  [QUOTE=majormack;2630812]First the Regulators lost Dick Brewer, and then the popular Frank McNab. I am not sure who their next leader was. It was either John Middleton or Josiah "Doc" Scurlock. Sallie Chisum who knew all of the Regulators collected tintype photographs of each.

                  There are a few pictures of Doc, most of them taken years after he was one of the wild ones within the band of vigilantes called the Regulators.

                  There have been no pictures of the popular John Middleton, but there are several descriptions of the gent. I found two. One within Sallie's collection and another within the photographer's collection that I found.

                  First Doc Scurlock:



                  QUOTE]

                  That can't be him, he looks nothing like Jack Bauer

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                  • #24
                    I am going to re-post the entire picture of Billy Bonney that shows the photographer's name. You can look above and see the same name on the photograph of John Middleton. I found these two pictures over a 1,000 miles apart! One in the dusty stacks inside a historical society and the other within Sallie's collection, but both were taken by the same man!

                    Here's the entire pic of the kid that Sallie Chisum owned.



                    Now here is another picture of the man who is probably Frank McNab. Same photographs and found next to the pic of Middleton from the photographer's photo album.



                    Note the similarities between this pic of the man who I believe is Frank McNab and the pic of the Kid. Once again, I found these two pictures over 1000 miles from on another! One in the album and the other in Sallie's collection.

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                    • #25
                      You might also note how similar are the poses. The young men were photographed often with similar backgrounds and placed the same distance from the camera's lens, as if they were taking turns; "Next!". The photos were also skillfully done. You can read the photographer's name along the bottom of the frames. He retired from the photo biz in 1890 and died in 1904. He eventually graduated to a more modern photographic technique ceasing to make tintypes probably in 1882.

                      Did this man go all the way from Wisconsin to New Mexico to take these tintypes photographs? Sure he did. Ever try to make a tintype when it is a zillion degrees below zero? Can't be done! So he went south, taking his wife with him and probably their children...I think they had two. He is listed as having been a county clerk in a town near Lincoln. He may have known John S. Chisum from birth since they came from the same region in Tennessee.

                      His photographs, mostly informal portraits, appear almost modern in style, especially the better pic of John Middleton which to me, is the best Victorian Era tintype that I have ever seen. The one of Billy is not bad. I have another that is wonderful, maybe better taken most likely when the pic of Dirty Dave Rudabaugh was taken. Billy was also posed within his jail cell and in a new suit purchased for the trio by Mike Cosgrove who had been a post man in Fort Sumner and knew the men.
                      Last edited by majormack; 08 Sep 13, 12:49.

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                      • #26
                        My little thread on photos of the Regulators isn't getting much play, so I'll close with this one final photograph and is an important one when one studies the Saga of Billy the Kid. Here is a tintype photograph of Tom O. Folliard, also spelled Tom O'Folliard. He admired Billy. Probably some kind of a hero worship.

                        Tom died hard. The man who shot and killed him did the same to the Kid about six months later. Tom was shot from his horse on a freezing cold December night by Pat Garrett, the sheriff. He was about 10 feet away when he shot him in the chest with a Winchester.

                        Garrett's posse took the mortally wounded, Tom inside an adobe in Fort Sumner and laid him by a fire, placing him on a blanket. Tom screamed and cussed for about half an hour. Garrett admonished him to shut up and watch his language because he was about to "meet his maker". Tom was given a drink, gurgled and died.

                        When he died he was a six footer and weighed 180 pounds. He was a red head. This tintype has been tinted. Tom was an orphan from Texas. He was 22 when he died.

                        Here is poor Tom:



                        Here is a little better copy of the photograph. Sallie Chisum collected it.

                        Last edited by majormack; 09 Sep 13, 12:31.

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                        • #27
                          It's only lacking play from people like me because there is nothing we can say.

                          I'm a happily ignorant man being giving a masterclass. I'm not going to interrupt the professor.
                          Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                          That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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                          • #28
                            I am enjoying following the thread. I just really don't have much I can add to the information being passed on by you. I am appreciating it though..

                            “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein

                            The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

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                            • #29
                              Pat Garrett and Killin' Jim Miller

                              Like many of our western figures, Pat Garret started out as a buffalo hunter in the great western plains. He then became a lawman in New Mexico in 1878, some time after killing a man who had attacked him with an ax after Garret had pummeled him in a fight. Pat ran for Sheriff of Lincoln County in 1980, on a law and order platform and with the backing of the Governor, and the cattle Baron John Chisum, he won.

                              Pat had played no part in the Lincoln Co. war, but as Sheriff he was soon to bring the law down on some of those Lincoln co. figures. It was Garret who finally tracked down Billy the Kid, under special auspice of the Governor, and shot him to death in the dark of night.

                              Pat tried to make a career from writing when he hired Ash Upson to help him write a book to capitalize on Billy the Kid. The book was a major disappointment sales wise, with the hiring of an inexperienced publisher who flubbed the distribution.

                              Pat next tried politics, but a Lawyer that was supporting the opposition, got into a tangle with Pat, it escalated from hot words to violence when Pat pulled his revolver and clubbed the man in the head. He lost the election.

                              Going back to a trade he knew, he was appointed as head of a newly formed company of Texas Rangers in 1884. After only six months, he tired of the lawman life again and became a successful rancher for awhile, and then a Customs Agent, a land speculator and eventually in 1908 he returned to Las Cruses New Mexico where he was mysteriously murdered.

                              ***

                              Deacon Jim Miller, aka Killer Miller, was for many years an infamous gunman and hitman. Some believe he had a hand in killing famed lawman Pat Garrett.

                              On July 30, 1884 the “Deacon” killed his first man, his brother-in-law, John Coop. Coop was killed in his sleep by a shotgun blast. The date of Miller’s birth indicates he would have been about 23 when he killed Coop, but some accounts say he was only 17. He was charged with the crime and found guilty, but the charges were dropped when he filed an appeal.

                              The nickname, Deacon, arose from his steady and noted attendance in the local Methodist church. It was said he could quote scripture as well as any minister, spurned alcohol and tobacco and never used profanity. He also sported around town wearing a long, black, frock coat and packing a shotgun.

                              All this time, he was a hired killer, and the work was never lacking.

                              " In 1891, he rode into Pecos, Texas, a raw, tough town just beginning to acquire a little civilization. Its population, it was said, spent its time 'making a living, going to church, picnics, engaging in a friendly drink now and then, praying three times a day and fist-fighting twice a week." (Historynet).

                              He was hired as a Deputy by Sheriff Bud Frazier at this time.
                              It wasn't long before he began to out live his welcome, being accused of rustling and murdering local Mexicans. He was fired by Sheriff Frazier, and he became a bar owner.

                              Feelings were strained between the two men and they broke out into shooting scrapes two different times, wounding both and Miller somehow walking away despite being shot in the chest. When Miller’s long, black coat and shirt were removed by the Doctor, it was discovered Miller was wearing a solid steel plate underneath his long coat. The plate was dented from four of Frazer's slugs. Later, Miller began stalking Frazer. He soon found him, playing cards in a Toyah saloon and killed him with a double barrel shotgun blast. Miller stood trial for the murder but again escaped the noose.

                              After 25 years of contract killings for as much as $2000 each, his luck ran out when Miller was hired by three men, Jesse West, Joe Allen and Berry Burrell, to kill former peace officer, Allen Augustus “Gus” Bobbitt in Ada, Oklahoma. Miller promptly fulfilled the contract, in an ambush. The four were quickly arrested.
                              In the early morning hours of April 19, 1909, a mob stormed the jail and the four prisoners were taken to a nearby abandoned livery stable and lynched.

                              "Miller, to his credit, was as impassive as he had been when he blew other men into eternity. 'Let the record show,' he said, 'that I've killed 51 men.' He pulled off a diamond ring and asked that it be given to his wife; a diamond shirt stud he left to the jailer for some kindness. Then, as the noose slid around his neck, Deacon Jim Miller asked for his trademark, his black broadcloth coat. 'I'd like to have my coat,' he said. 'I don't want to die naked.'
                              No, said the posse members; they had had enough of the cool killer's effrontery. At his repeated request, somebody did set Killin' Jim's hat on the side of his head, and Miller actually laughed. 'I'm ready now,' he supposedly said. 'You couldn't kill me otherwise. Let her rip!
                              -Historynet.

                              ***

                              On March 1, 1908, Garret was killed while riding in a buggy with Carl Adamson, one of two prospective buyers for Bear Canyon Ranch, a property Garret was trying to sell. On the trail they met cowboy Wayne Brazel who was leasing Garrets property and had begun running goats on it. Garret and he were in a dispute over that action. Brazel joined the party and as they travelled he and Garret were arguing about the goats and the lease, which Garret felt threatened the sale of the ranch. They stopped at a point so Garret and Adamson could step out and take a leak. With their backs to Brazel, two shots rang out and Garret fell dead.
                              The two men turned themselves in, Brazel claiming he shot Garret in self defense. He was acquited at trial.

                              As time passed, people began to doubt the story and the trial itself was thought a 'fix'. Pretty soon a counter theory (among others) came to being.

                              "an alleged meeting at the St. Regis Hotel in El Paso in the fall of 1907. In attendance at the meeting were W. W. Cox, Oliver Lee, Jim Gililland, Albert B. Fall, A. P. "Print" Rhode (Cox's brother-in-law), James P. Miller, Carl Adamson, and Mannie Clements. They were there to decide how to rid themselves of Pat Garrett. There were a number of motives: vengeance for Pat's activities while a lawman, fear that Garrett was continuing his investigation of the Fountain case, the desire for the water on Pat's ranch, and a seething anger over Garrett's killing of an alleged fugitive harbored on Cox's San Augustine Ranch.
                              The alleged conspirators offered Jim "Killer" Miller ten thousand dollars (accounts vary) to kill Garrett. He accepted, and the money was delivered to him at Fall's El Paso law office. The goats were part of the plan, as was the compliance of Wayne Brazel. Wayne was intensely loyal to W. W. Cox and could be depended upon to obey the cattleman's orders, no matter what they were. The goats would assure Garrett's anger, and his anger would lead to threats. Adamson would assure Pat's arrival at the predetermined spot where Miller would do the shooting, Brazel would take responsibility, and Adamson would swear to the truth of the matter."

                              http://southernnewmexico.com/Article...atGarrett.html
                              Last edited by unclefred; 09 Sep 13, 16:07.
                              "A common thug can kill someone, but it takes the talents of an intelligence service to make a murder appear to be a suicide or accident death." -- James Angleton, CIA, Chief of Counterintelligence.

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                              • #30
                                Some people believe that Pat Garrett and the Kid were pals. I had a long talk with Leon Metz, a well known and popular writer of all things related to the kid. He said, and I agree that Garrett and the kid knew one another, but that was about as far as it went.

                                Billy had a well established circle of friends, and none of them were friends of Garrett. Garrett and the kid had little in common, except that occasionally the kid had played three card monte in the saloon where Pat was tending bar. Garrett was a tall, dower sort. He kid was a little guy and full of fun. They would have seen eye to eye in almost nothing.

                                When Garrett finally shot and killed the kid he said that before he fired he recognized the kid's voice. I believe that is about how much he knew Billy. He knew him well enough to recognize his voice

                                Garrett IMO was scared spitless of Billy the Kid. He knew he was quick as a cat and shot first and asked questions later. Billy's killing of Joe Grant is an example of how quickly Billy could react. A lot of people, including Barney Mason were scared to death of the kid.

                                After the Kid's death people on all sides of the conflict breathed a sigh of relief. Even, probably the young woman he was about to run away with and marry. Billy was a problem where ever he went. Trouble was glued to him like tar and feathers.

                                Billy was good friends with the Coe cousins, Frank and George. Both were regulators and spent many months with the kid, both admired him. Both lived well into the mid-20th Century. I spoke with Frank's grand daughter in 2010. She told me that Frank's wife, Helena Tully Coe told her that she would not allow the kid's name uttered within her home. If someone came over and wanted to talk to her husband, Frank about Billy the Kid, she would shoo them to the barn.

                                Billy Bonney, aka Billy the Kid, aka William Henry McCarty is ironically, maybe the most well known American of us all. If you run into a fellow in Tokyo and mention Billy the Kid he will likely make his fingers into a pistol and say "bang, bang". If Billy had known this, he would have fallen over laughing.

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