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So Custer? Great General, or Greatest General . ?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by KRJ View Post
    Libby's PR campaign?
    Yes, Libby had a lot to do with that.
    “When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.”
    ― Groucho Marx

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
      ...If his subordinates had carried out his orders as he issued them perhaps things would have turned out different...
      Probably not, but the inevitable might have taken a little longer.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by FluffyBunnyFeet View Post
        And at the LBH...and Custers brilliance.
        Custer was neither a good regimental commander, nor brilliant. And he got his men slaughtered to no purpose and disobeyed orders to boot.

        Custer probably had too little regimental service to become a good regimental commander.

        The 7th Cavalry was not the best regiment on the frontier, not even close. And Custer was not a good leader either for the regiment was clique-ridden and not a cohesive unit.

        That was Custer's fault.

        Sincerely,
        M
        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Massena View Post
          The 7th Cavalry was not the best regiment on the frontier, not even close.
          Ranald "Bad Hand" Mackenzie and the 4th United States Cavalry?

          http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...nald+Mackenzie
          Last edited by KRJ; 18 Mar 14, 23:25.
          "Shoot for the epaulets, boys! Shoot for the epaulets!" - Daniel Morgan

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          • #35
            We would have to consider the 2nd, 9th and 10th Cavalry Regiments for sure.

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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            • #36
              http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/custer.htm
              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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              • #37
                Famous last words...

                Holy cow, Look at all those fing injuns..

                Content warning.

                Credo quia absurdum.


                Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  We would have to consider the 2nd, 9th and 10th Cavalry Regiments for sure.
                  Point taken. I'm not sure we can say a certain cavalry regiment was the best on the frontier. But Mackenzie and the 4th certainly saw more hard and successful campaigning than Custer and the 7th ever did.
                  Last edited by KRJ; 18 Mar 14, 23:43.
                  "Shoot for the epaulets, boys! Shoot for the epaulets!" - Daniel Morgan

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Massena View Post
                    Custer was neither a good regimental commander, nor brilliant. And he got his men slaughtered to no purpose and disobeyed orders to boot.

                    Custer probably had too little regimental service to become a good regimental commander.

                    The 7th Cavalry was not the best regiment on the frontier, not even close. And Custer was not a good leader either for the regiment was clique-ridden and not a cohesive unit.

                    That was Custer's fault.

                    Sincerely,
                    M
                    I disagree with this assessment with regards to Custer's War service. When in a Structured environment, he performed quite well. I fully agree with it regarding his post-war service. When given free rein, he performed poorly. The best Cavalry Regiment on the Frontier was the 4th.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                      Famous last words...

                      Holy cow, Look at all those fing injuns..

                      Content warning.

                      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Wooden Wonder View Post
                        Custer was no battlefield master tactician. He made the same sort of blunders at Little Big Horn, as Chelmsford made about 4 or 5 days later at Isandlwana.

                        Things like underestimating the opposition, and splitting up his forces in enemy territory without sufficient fore-knowledge of the oppositions' deployment and intentions.
                        "4 or 5 days later" ? Plus three years perhaps ?

                        There's no doubt that a certain mystique has grown up around the Little Big Horn action but, on that score, I hardly think Custer qualifies as a "Great" , much less the "Greatest" General.

                        After all, he failed in the ultimate test of any commander:- he lost.
                        "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                        Samuel Johnson.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Bdell View Post
                          I disagree with this assessment with regards to Custer's War service. When in a Structured environment, he performed quite well. I fully agree with it regarding his post-war service. When given free rein, he performed poorly. The best Cavalry Regiment on the Frontier was the 4th.
                          I said nothing about Custer's war service. I remarked upon his lack of regimental service, meaning that he wasn't a junior officer in a cavalry regiment for any length of time so that he could learn his profession, how to care for both his men and horses. Murat, during the Napoleonic period, had the same problem.

                          Sincerely,
                          M
                          We are not now that strength which in old days
                          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                            "4 or 5 days later" ? Plus three years perhaps ?

                            There's no doubt that a certain mystique has grown up around the Little Big Horn action but, on that score, I hardly think Custer qualifies as a "Great" , much less the "Greatest" General.

                            After all, he failed in the ultimate test of any commander:- he lost.
                            Losing isn't necessarily the ultimate test. Many good commanders, great captains some of them, lost battles. However, Custer lost badly, got himself and his immediate command annihilated with the exception of one horse, and disobeyed orders to boot.

                            There is a great difference.

                            Sincerely,
                            M
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Viperlord View Post
                              http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3281

                              I thought this was a pretty balanced take on Custer.
                              I like:

                              Buford - the dragoon

                              Custer - the hussar


                              SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Massena View Post
                                I said nothing about Custer's war service. I remarked upon his lack of regimental service, meaning that he wasn't a junior officer in a cavalry regiment for any length of time so that he could learn his profession, how to care for both his men and horses. Murat, during the Napoleonic period, had the same problem.

                                Sincerely,
                                M
                                Excellent comparison. Custer disregarded his own Army's doctrine, he rode his men and horses into exhaustion (while disobeying his orders), he did not pay sufficient attention to individual training, and most perplexing, despite going headlong into what was certainly going to be a tough fight, he did not bother to issue extra ammunition to his men.

                                The glorious headlong charge, a tactic long abandoned by the US Army, was his preferred mode.

                                Comment

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