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So Custer? Great General, or Greatest General . ?

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  • Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
    Nope....

    Grant covers only the war years, mentioning nothing of his presidency.

    Someone above called him "the most corrupt president we've ever had..."

    More corrupt than Richard Nixon?

    More Corrupt than George Bush Senior?

    Kennedy was not immune from corruption either....

    I suppose it's all in the way you view the individuals. Grant was very out of place in Washinton. More at home sitting on the porch, whittling wood and whispering to his horses. a straitforward personality like that does not make for a successful politician by any stretch.
    He let his cronies rob the country, from reconstructing the south, to the Fort Trader rings, misappropriation of funds, and used all his power and then some to cover up, block, and bury investigations, and prosecutions. Nixon, even George W. Had nothing on US Grant. He had about 20 corruption scandals in his own cabinet and family. And he was a vindictive to anyone that spoke out against his cronies, no matter how true it was. That is corruption.

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    • Custers Scouts pleaded with Custer to attack the Village on the morning of the 25th, telling him his "plan to wait was "no good" Saying "they have likely already seen the fires from you camp." "We must attack now".
      How do we know this? Weren't they all killed at LBH?
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      youíre entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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      • Several of Custer's Scouts got away. I think the ones with Reno and Benteen stayed.

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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        • Originally posted by Gambrinus II View Post
          Custer had scouts that did recon, they advised him to wait. He didn't.

          Custer had engaged many other camps previously that had very few braves, which made him feel invincible when he wiped them out so easily.

          I posted above that he would have made a good politician, only because he had the drive for power and glory, he was not interested in chasing Indians out on the plains, he was more interested in telling his heroic deeds at dinner parties.
          Lies, and obvious trolling,

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          • Originally posted by KRJ View Post
            Many? I'm aware of Washita. What are the others?
            Yes he had been in quite a few fire fights with Indians, they just don't all go down as battles, because as always, Indians fought by attacking unsuspecting small groups of soldiers, and then running away. Most of the time it was just tracking them, because they could not find any to bring to a fight, before they scattered to the wind.

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            • Custer was right.

              http://www.historynet.com/ten-myths-...le-bighorn.htm

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              • Originally posted by KRJ View Post
                Many? I'm aware of Washita. What are the others?
                I don't remember the names but Custer Under Gen. Winfield Hancockís command, Custer led the Seventh Cavalry in several skirmishes against Indians in Kansas and Nebraska.

                I don't think they are names of battles/skirmishes that will be easy to find, you would have to read the journals from Custer and others in the Seventh Cav. to find that out.

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                • Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                  How do we know this? Weren't they all killed at LBH?
                  If memory serves Custer dismissed his scouts just before the advance on the village, they legged it with a few captured Indian ponies. I believe those with Reno and Benteen took part in the fighting. Bloody Knife, a scout with Reno's command, certainly died in the initial charge.

                  The long toll of the brave
                  Is not lost in darkness
                  Over the fruitful earth
                  And athwart the seas
                  Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                  Unquenchable forever.

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                  • When I was in high school I took a big interest in Custer and would read anything I could get about him and his Last Stand. I quickly learned that the school text books were very biased if not outright false.

                    There is a great deal of info about the Indian wars and most of it is hidden because it was not popular for some reason or another, many times because it was a journal written by some little known private or an account told by an Indian scout.

                    When you put it all together with known accounts from "reliable" sources, it is then possible to piece together what may have been the truth. The same thing happens in modern history.

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                    • Yes Gambrini....All done from memory I'm afraid. I do have my own sources for Custer, but cant find them (my wife is reorganising the house! Thanks Arlene!)

                      If Custer's command situation was so precarious, I'm fairly sure he was ignoring orders to step down then, and everything else would be rendered null and void, based on the simple fact that someone else should have been making the calls. If this was the case, most pro-Custer books and articles are nonsense, then.

                      Ignorance of his own scouts cannot work both ways. At some point they are claiming they told Custer to do everything, both sit and wait and attack. I also believe his scouts were Crow Indians, yes? And they seem to have disappeared for the action, wisely enough.

                      By all accounts, Custer's own eyes should have seen the size of the encampment to begin with. That alone would have told him the numbers didn't match with his. It's nothing short of criminal for him to have gone forward with the puny resources under his command.

                      I prefer to see Custer as a character, a colorful, vibrant, and alive character. As a soldier, he left a lot to be desired. As a student he left a lot to be desired. As a Civivl War Cavalryman, his attitude was nothing short of publicity seeking, to make up for his por academic performance.

                      Custer has become a benchmark for bad leadership. I cannot add anything to that.

                      Thanks for your reasoned reply, Fluffy Bunny. Thats a great name for a poster, with all the luck of the rabbit involved. I picture you wearing carpet slippers when at the keyboard, fluffy bunny carpet slippers. Just an image I have in mind.
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                      • I believe Custer was brave but he lacked common sense and allowed glory to rule his decisions, up until LBH he chased Indians and he worried that if he lost surprise that he would be chasing again.

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                        • Heh, I think the best depiction of custer comes from Flashman and The Redskins.

                          Credo quia absurdum.


                          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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                          • Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
                            Heh, I think the best depiction of custer comes from Flashman and The Redskins.

                            I will have to look for that, there is a library close to where I live now and they will be getting a lot of requests from me.
                            I thought the movie Little Big Man was very funny.

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                            • Scapegoat is the best description for Custer and the outcome at LBH. Only the living could tell their versions of the story.

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                              • Originally posted by Gambrinus II View Post
                                .
                                I thought the movie Little Big Man was very funny.

                                I wonder if ''Little Big Man'' was the first major movie to portray Custer in a negative way?

                                It seems like this era (1970) was a time when there started to be a more sophisticated view of the struggle between Native Americans and U.S. expansion.

                                This was also during a period when the military had become very unpopular with some due to the Vietnam War.
                                "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
                                Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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