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So Custer? Great General, or Greatest General . ?

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  • Originally posted by FluffyBunnyFeet View Post
    So basically you just like to post opinions, and then mute scrutiny when reality comes a calling. I'm sure that Custer knowing that the President was out to destroy him the first chance he got, did not affect his decision making? The fact that if the Indians had fled without Custer engaging them while still in group, as they escaped right through the door Crooke left open, he likely also would have been Court Marshaled. Custer had only one way to defend himself against the arguably the most Corrupt President in US history. Victory. Why wouldn't a guy that had never been defeated in 60+ fights not bet on himself, especially when it was his mission. "That if he should strike the trail, do what he thought was best".
    Are you trying to tell me there is not an ignore button?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Gambrinus II View Post
      Are you trying to tell me there is not an ignore button?
      No it's called the Cuckold Button, It's on their for pansies, who can't admit when a desired belief, actually just their bias subjectivity getting pounded by a The Superior Alpha Forum Poster endowed with Objective Logic..

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gambrinus II View Post
        Are you trying to tell me there is not an ignore button?

        Yeah there is one. Go to User CP, Edit ignore list and put someone who you don't wish to talk to anymore name in the box and hit go.

        Easy to remove as well. But for me they have to have a long time of being either insulting or mind-numbingly lame.

        My list has five people I consider *special*...
        Credo quia absurdum.


        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
          Yeah there is one. Go to User CP, Edit ignore list and put someone who you don't wish to talk to anymore name in the box and hit go.

          Easy to remove as well. But for me they have to have a long time of being either insulting or mind-numbingly lame.

          My list has five people I consider *special*...
          Thank you Bwaha, I like to engage with people on forums who use Objective Logic and ignore those who don't.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Gambrinus II View Post
            Thank you Bwaha, I like to engage with people on forums who use Objective Logic and ignore those who don't.
            Good Luck!

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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            • Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
              Good Luck!

              Pruitt
              Pruitt #2 on ignore.

              Comment


              • I'm going to venture an opinion on this man...Here you go Gambrinus, I'll welcome you to comment on my posts anytime, good bad or indifferent as you may see fit!

                I do believe that GAC was guilty of failing to recon the Indian 'ville' he ran across at Little Big Horn. His brash, glory seeking actions and failure to co-ordinate his split command cost him dearly.

                Custer knew darned well how to handle a big encampment, and that was to wait for the pack train with the gattling guns. Sending 240 plus people in a pincer attack when you should have stuck together in a covenient position of natural defense is inexcusable, to say the least.

                Armstrong let his judgement carry him away whilst ignoring the military realities that could have easily shown themselves to be the case with a little time spent observing the village, counting lodges to get an idea of umbers, or simply looking at the number of horses in the corral to get a fair idea of what he was up against.

                I do not believe he had US. Grant in mind at all, more like his own chances of getting to be a General again. He was only a Brevet Colonel, had been demoted after the ACW finished, and was looking to get his reputation and standing with the government back in the good books.

                The Sioux with Gall and Two Moons outnumbered Custer's command alone. They fended off Benteen's attack rather easily, and besieged his position until they were forced to quit the field to move their lodges before the bulk of Crook's soldiers arrived.

                Full credit to people like Rain in the Face and Sitting Bull for seeing the situation as it was, rather than they way they would like it to have been. The Sioux also had better rifles, more horses, and were defending their home and loved ones.

                Custer was a vain glory seeker, taking ill advised gambeles with a command with not enough firepower or support to do the job he set them, let alone eliminate the entire village encampment.

                Christopher
                My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

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                • Custer had scouts that did recon, they advised him to wait. He didn't.

                  Custer had engaged many other camps previously that had very few braves, which made him feel invincible when he wiped them out so easily.

                  I posted above that he would have made a good politician, only because he had the drive for power and glory, he was not interested in chasing Indians out on the plains, he was more interested in telling his heroic deeds at dinner parties.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gambrinus II View Post
                    Custer had scouts that did recon, they advised him to wait. He didn't.

                    Custer had engaged many other camps previously that had very few braves, which made him feel invincible when he wiped them out so easily.

                    I posted above that he would have made a good politician, only because he had the drive for power and glory, he was not interested in chasing Indians out on the plains, he was more interested in telling his heroic deeds at dinner parties.
                    Absolutely agree with that...

                    But, he was such a great dinner party guest to have wasn't he? A man with Civil War experience not confined to despatches, in the public eye the whole time. a man who rode a horse at full speed down the Washington victory parade route, and got a cheer for stealing the show from the rest of the army with his horse antics.

                    Fighting indians must have seemed like tedious work by comparison to well publicizedactions during the ACW. And Custer, had he become a plitician, would not have been the first to do so with a war record, however ungainly it may have appeared.

                    George Maclellan certainly was not detered by failure from purueing a career in politics. Grant was always going to fail as a politician, because he was a plain speaker. He also had to do many backroom deals to make reconstruction happen. "Ill get a quote or two from his memoirs on that score and get back to you directly....
                    My Articles, ALMOST LIVE, exclusive to The Armchair!

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                    • Nope....

                      Grant covers only the war years, mentioning nothing of his presidency.

                      Someone above called him "the most corrupt president we've ever had..."

                      More corrupt than Richard Nixon?

                      More Corrupt than George Bush Senior?

                      Kennedy was not immune from corruption either....

                      I suppose it's all in the way you view the individuals. Grant was very out of place in Washinton. More at home sitting on the porch, whittling wood and whispering to his horses. a straitforward personality like that does not make for a successful politician by any stretch.
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                      • Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                        Custer knew darned well how to handle a big encampment, and that was to wait for the pack train with the gattling guns.

                        Christopher
                        That's the ticket DN, riddle them pesky Redskins with Gatling Guns then charge in with the Sabre...
                        neither of which the 7th Cavalry had with them at Little Big Horn!

                        The long toll of the brave
                        Is not lost in darkness
                        Over the fruitful earth
                        And athwart the seas
                        Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                        Unquenchable forever.

                        Comment


                        • Nope ol mate von....but Crook certainly did...

                          And there was the rub.

                          If Custer waited for the proper thing to do, the Indians would have picked up and moved on before he had the people to take them on. And he knew it.

                          So, unsupported attack was the order of the day, a chance to grab the glory, to sort the situation as only a Brevet colonel knew how, on the spot, and a bevy of headlines to get him back his general's stars.

                          Benteen is often criticized, but after his own failure, he was wise enough to retreat to a defensive position, and ride out the attacks before the inevitable Indian move. That movement by the Sioux was always on the cards. They had to keep one step ahead of the three different cloumns to have any chance of staying alive. so they were always going to move.

                          And Custer knew this better than anyone.

                          Gall and Two Moons had about 1,200 warriors facing Custer alone. Thats 10-1 for a start, never mind the warriors facing Benteen, who had already lost as many as 40 men in the assault, before his hasty withdrawl.

                          Benteen also ignored Custer's last message, if he got it at all, (which I believe he did). Benteen and Marcus Reno survived by ignoring custer, so who is to say they made the wrong choice? Nothing could have saved Custer once he commenced his flank march, and put himself out of touch with the rest of his command. Even combined, they had not the firepower to take on roughly 1,500 fully armed and horsed Indians, who mostly were equipped with Winchester lever action rifles, rather than the slower firing Spencer Carbines.

                          How are you anyway Mr. Richter? Nice to see you online once again!
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                          Lincoln-Douglas Debates

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                          • I'm fine thanks Chris. I've always had an interest in the 'Boy General's' last stand, and have learned a lot from the experts in this part of the forum. My 'umble opinion is that Custer did everything, past experience of these engagements, had taught him to expect. Sadly for him and his men there were too many Indians who fought a very different kind of fight!



                            The long toll of the brave
                            Is not lost in darkness
                            Over the fruitful earth
                            And athwart the seas
                            Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                            Unquenchable forever.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gambrinus II View Post
                              Custer had engaged many other camps previously.....
                              Many? I'm aware of Washita. What are the others?
                              "Shoot for the epaulets, boys! Shoot for the epaulets!" - Daniel Morgan

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Drusus Nero View Post
                                I'm going to venture an opinion on this man...Here you go Gambrinus, I'll welcome you to comment on my posts anytime, good bad or indifferent as you may see fit!

                                I do believe that GAC was guilty of failing to recon the Indian 'ville' he ran across at Little Big Horn. His brash, glory seeking actions and failure to co-ordinate his split command cost him dearly.

                                Custer knew darned well how to handle a big encampment, and that was to wait for the pack train with the gattling guns. Sending 240 plus people in a pincer attack when you should have stuck together in a covenient position of natural defense is inexcusable, to say the least.

                                Armstrong let his judgement carry him away whilst ignoring the military realities that could have easily shown themselves to be the case with a little time spent observing the village, counting lodges to get an idea of umbers, or simply looking at the number of horses in the corral to get a fair idea of what he was up against.

                                I do not believe he had US. Grant in mind at all, more like his own chances of getting to be a General again. He was only a Brevet Colonel, had been demoted after the ACW finished, and was looking to get his reputation and standing with the government back in the good books.

                                The Sioux with Gall and Two Moons outnumbered Custer's command alone. They fended off Benteen's attack rather easily, and besieged his position until they were forced to quit the field to move their lodges before the bulk of Crook's soldiers arrived.

                                Full credit to people like Rain in the Face and Sitting Bull for seeing the situation as it was, rather than they way they would like it to have been. The Sioux also had better rifles, more horses, and were defending their home and loved ones.

                                Custer was a vain glory seeker, taking ill advised gambeles with a command with not enough firepower or support to do the job he set them, let alone eliminate the entire village encampment.

                                Christopher

                                So many well known flaws in this post, I question if any fo you have actually read any sources at all?

                                1 Custers Plan was to Recon the Village on the 25th, and attack on the morning of the 26th, but he and his scouts had thought they had been discovered, So he attacked them before they could disperse per his orders.

                                2. Custers Scouts pleaded with Custer to attack the Village on the morning of the 25th, telling him his "plan to wait was "no good" Saying "they have likely already seen the fires from you camp." "We must attack now".

                                3. Grant was very much on his mind, Grant has just relieved him of command as reprisal for his testifying before Congress, against THe Secretary of War Bellknap, and Grants own brother Orville Grant. Grant only reinstated him just before the fight because of the public pressure,, put on him, but he did so likely with the intention of putting any failure in the campaign, on Custer no matter what. This was absolutely on Custers mind knowing that he was likely being put in the position of scapegoat if this poorly planned Campaign, failed. That is just nonsense to think it didn't have an affect.

                                4 you screwed up the names. Benteen never lead the attack on the village that was Reno's action you described, and Crook was never anywhere near the Bighorn, he turned back over a week earlier with out ever sending word of his failure to close the north western route.

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