Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sotchi Olympics 2014

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • tigersqn
    replied
    Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
    He was NOT the best goaltender at Sochi.

    Don't confuse excellent team defense with great goal tending.

    I agree. The Latvian goalie was a standout.

    But Price won the Best Goaltender of the Tournament award.

    Leave a comment:


  • dgfred
    replied
    The 'best' goalie is always the one with the gold medal IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdrianE
    replied
    Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
    Now he has his Olympic Gold and best goaltender at Sochi.
    He was NOT the best goaltender at Sochi.

    Don't confuse excellent team defense with great goal tending.

    Leave a comment:


  • Canuckster
    replied
    Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
    Yep, he had a horrible year last season, which is why Bergevin picked up Jimmy Waite as goaltending coach in the off-season.
    The difference this season has been noticeable.
    Yup, I think the problem with Price for a while was between the ears. Tried playing the puck way too much and got burned for it. Did you notice in the Olympics how many times he just covered up and ate the puck? The guy was a vacuum and gave up almost zero rebounds!

    Leave a comment:


  • tigersqn
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    Comparing defensemen to defensemen, yes: the US' are better. I don't think it out of line to say that Ryan McDonagh is the best one-on-one defensemen in the NHL today.
    I would disagree.

    But Canada didn't play two-man defense: they played five-man defense. Canada's forwards were constantly involved in the defense, and all five of them stuffed up the neutral zone pretty fierce. US' forwards all too often tried to play Lone Ranger. They got away with that crap against an old-looking Slovakia and Czech Republic: against Canada's five-man scheme, it flopped.
    Can't argue with that.


    Flip back a couple of pages, and I think you'll find where I praise Babock, Ruff, and Julien, for preaching the necessity of keeping the gap between the blue-liners and the forwards as tight as possible. Canada's gap was usually no more than the distance from the blue line to the red line. The US' was all too often far larger.
    The US played an NHL sized rink game.
    They didn't adapt their play for the different dimensions of the international ice.
    You'll notice how many goals Canadian defencemen scored in the tournament. That was no fluke.
    You've already mentioned the clogging of the neutral zone.


    So do I, as again that one number will not tell a whole story. Nevertheless, Price's Sv Pct is no better than most, and worse than a few.
    You know how sports is: there's no substitute for confidence. I wouldn't be surprised if Price went on a tear starting this week. What separates the exceptional goaltenders from the average is, how do they respond when things don't go so well. Price's history on that score has been a little rocky.
    Have you ever seen Price rattled ?

    I do agree in a sense though. I think this could be a career year for Price.



    How many goaltending coaches have the Habs been through during Price's tenure?
    Before Jimmy Waite, it was Francois Allaire. That's it.

    In Price's first year with the Habs, he got them into the playoffs and they beat the Bruins in the first round before losing against the Flyers.
    His Sv% that year was .920 as a rookie.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
    . . . . And you still maintain the US had the better defensive corps ? . . . . Again, you still maintain the US defensive corps was better ??
    Comparing defensemen to defensemen, yes: the US' are better. I don't think it out of line to say that Ryan McDonagh is the best one-on-one defensemen in the NHL today. But Canada didn't play two-man defense: they played five-man defense. Canada's forwards were constantly involved in the defense, and all five of them stuffed up the neutral zone pretty fierce. US' forwards all too often tried to play Lone Ranger. They got away with that crap against an old-looking Slovakia and Czech Republic: against Canada's five-man scheme, it flopped.

    Flip back a couple of pages, and I think you'll find where I praise Babock, Ruff, and Julien, for preaching the necessity of keeping the gap between the blue-liners and the forwards as tight as possible. Canada's gap was usually no more than the distance from the blue line to the red line. The US' was all too often far larger.

    Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
    I prefer Save %, but in that also, there is no method for measuring the quality of the shots.
    So do I, as again that one number will not tell a whole story. Nevertheless, Price's Sv Pct is no better than most, and worse than a few.

    Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
    I'll be the first to admit that Price had a dog of a year last season, but the Habs have made key changes to his support this season in acquiring Jimmy Waite as the goalie coach. As a result, Price's play this season has been nothing short of stellar.
    You know how sports is: there's no substitute for confidence. I wouldn't be surprised if Price went on a tear starting this week. What separates the exceptional goaltenders from the average is, how do they respond when things don't go so well. Price's history on that score has been a little rocky.

    Originally posted by tigersqn
    Yep, he had a horrible year last season, which is why Bergevin picked up Jimmy Waite as goaltending coach in the off-season.
    The difference this season has been noticeable.
    How many goaltending coaches have the Habs been through during Price's tenure?

    Leave a comment:


  • tigersqn
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    ^ And just to underline the point, here's a bunch of informal rankings of NHL goalies from the beginning or earlier this season.

    http://www.rawcharge.com/2013/9/18/4...hl-goaltenders
    http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...ave-percentage
    http://www.crashthenet.com/?p=3921
    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...0-goaltenders/
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--ra...154114642.html
    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=681362
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...tender/page/19

    One of them ranks Price fourth, while another has him at the very bottom. I'm throwing out both as neither strikes me as realistic. Of the rest, one has Price as high as seventh, and all the rest have between tenth and thirteenth. That strikes me as exactly where Price should be ranked.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Montreal press all over Price over the summer due to his performance in the playoffs?

    Yep, he had a horrible year last season, which is why Bergevin picked up Jimmy Waite as goaltending coach in the off-season.
    The difference this season has been noticeable.

    Leave a comment:


  • tigersqn
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    But you can't explain why Price has yet to win a Vezina.
    "Yet" would be the key word there.



    For Price it was easy: his defense kept the opposition to the outside, and gave up precious few quality scoring chances from the middle.
    And you still maintain the US had the better defensive corps ?



    For Canada's opponents, on the other hand, things got real tough when the Canucks forced giveaways in the neutral zone and then stormed the net. In all of Canada's Olympic games they gave up more SoG.
    Which is one reason Price won best goalie of the tournament.
    GAA: .59
    SV %: .971


    Now I watched every minute of their games against the US and Sweden, and in terms of turnovers and quality scoring chances, the Canadians were way ahead.
    Yep, they had the better team overall


    They were also ahead on time in the offensive zone, as well.
    As any coach will say, a key to a successful defence.


    For both the US and Sweden, it was always one-and-out in the Canadian zone -- assuming they even reached it. The Canucks were outstanding in the neutral zone, making it all but impossible for the US or Sweden to reach the offensive zone or generate much of a forecheck. Playing D like that makes a goalie's life real easy, and that's what Price had: an easy Olympics.
    Again, you still maintain the US defensive corps was better ??



    For goalteding I'm not usually one for the numbers, 'cause GAA doesn't count the quality of the shots faced, but virtually all of the netminders that I mentioned who've had an NHL career of any length boast numbers at least equal to, if not better than, Carey Price.
    I prefer Save %, but in that also, there is no method for measuring the quality of the shots.
    I'll be the first to admit that Price had a dog of a year last season, but the Habs have made key changes to his support this season in acquiring Jimmy Waite as the goalie coach. As a result, Price's play this season has been nothing short of stellar.


    And in the playoffs it's not even close: he comes down quite a bit in the postseason.
    Waite will have an impact on that.
    Personally I consider the playoffs to be similar to an endurance race. This means that success is dependant on team play much more than it is during the regular season. Montreal, as a smaller team, simply doesn't have the endurance that enables it to go through more than a couple of rounds into the playoffs.
    That remains a work in progress, but so far, Bergevin has been doing an admirable job.


    If I were you I'd be questioning the Habs' scouts: not only did they pick Price ahead of Quick and Rask, but also ahead of Anze Kopitar, Paul Stasny, Justin Abdelkadr, Marc Stahl, Marc Eduord Vlasic, and Kris Letang. There's at least four Stanly Cups on that list ahead of Price, and with the exception of Detroit, they all play for teams ahead of Montreal in the standings. Wonder why?
    Simple.
    As shown in the post above, Price has succeeded, indeed excelled, at every level he has played at.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    ^ And just to underline the point, here's a bunch of informal rankings of NHL goalies from the beginning or earlier this season.

    http://www.rawcharge.com/2013/9/18/4...hl-goaltenders
    http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...ave-percentage
    http://www.crashthenet.com/?p=3921
    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/n...0-goaltenders/
    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--ra...154114642.html
    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=681362
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...tender/page/19

    One of them ranks Price fourth, while another has him at the very bottom. I'm throwing out both as neither strikes me as realistic. Of the rest, one has Price as high as seventh, and all the rest have between tenth and thirteenth. That strikes me as exactly where Price should be ranked.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Montreal press all over Price over the summer due to his performance in the playoffs?

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
    I wouldn't only suggest it, but state it as fact.
    But you can't explain why Price has yet to win a Vezina.

    Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
    They had to stand on their heads; they were so often caught out of position, something that happens rarely to Carey Price. He makes it look easy.
    For Price it was easy: his defense kept the opposition to the outside, and gave up precious few quality scoring chances from the middle. For Canada's opponents, on the other hand, things got real tough when the Canucks forced giveaways in the neutral zone and then stormed the net. In all of Canada's Olympic games they gave up more SoG. Now I watched every minute of their games against the US and Sweden, and in terms of turnovers and quality scoring chances, the Canadians were way ahead. They were also ahead on time in the offensive zone, as well. For both the US and Sweden, it was always one-and-out in the Canadian zone -- assuming they even reached it. The Canucks were outstanding in the neutral zone, making it all but impossible for the US or Sweden to reach the offensive zone or generate much of a forecheck. Playing D like that makes a goalie's life real easy, and that's what Price had: an easy Olympics.

    Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
    Good thing you're not a Scout.
    For goalteding I'm not usually one for the numbers, 'cause GAA doesn't count the quality of the shots faced, but virtually all of the netminders that I mentioned who've had an NHL career of any length boast numbers at least equal to, if not better than, Carey Price. And in the playoffs it's not even close: he comes down quite a bit in the postseason.

    If I were you I'd be questioning the Habs' scouts: not only did they pick Price ahead of Quick and Rask, but also ahead of Anze Kopitar, Paul Stasny, Justin Abdelkadr, Marc Stahl, Marc Eduord Vlasic, and Kris Letang. There's at least four Stanly Cups on that list ahead of Price, and with the exception of Detroit, they all play for teams ahead of Montreal in the standings. Wonder why?

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/draf...005_entry.html
    http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...priceca01.html
    http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...quickjo01.html
    http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...lundqhe01.html
    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/rasktu01.html
    http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...bobrose01.html
    http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...niemian02.html
    http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...halakja01.html
    http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...smithmi01.html
    http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/game/show/6732510
    http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/game/show/6732497
    http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/game/sh...ferrer=1070284
    http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/game/sh...ferrer=1070284
    http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/game/sh...ferrer=1070284
    http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/game/sh...ferrer=1070284
    http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/schedul...instance/16629

    Leave a comment:


  • tigersqn
    replied
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
    I'd take Jonathan Quick's back-up, Ryan Miller, over Corey Price every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    Or are you going to suggest that Price is a better netminder than Henrik Lundqvist on the basis of a 3-0 shutout in Canada's favor?
    I wouldn't only suggest it, but state it as fact.



    But look at the quality of the shots-on-goal that Price faced. Few of them were especially challenging, overwhelmingly garden-variety, mediocre. Both Quick and Lundqvist stood on their heads, made Vezina-worthy saves against the Canucks -- and both still lost.
    They had to stand on their heads; they were so often caught out of position, something that happens rarely to Carey Price. He makes it look easy.



    I dare say that that says more about the Hurricanes this year than it does about Price. Price is your classic neurotic goaltender: you never know who'll show up from one night to the next, Dr Jeckyll or Mr Hyde. And frankly, even at his best, Price isn't the tenth best goalie in the league. I'd put Rask, Bobrovsky, Halak, Elliott, Mike Smith, Niemi, and Bishop, as well as the aforementioned Quick, Lundqvist, and Miller ahead of Corey Price.
    Good thing you're not a Scout.
    Last edited by tigersqn; 25 Feb 14, 16:49.

    Leave a comment:


  • tigersqn
    replied
    Originally posted by dgfred View Post
    5 goals against in the final kind of blows that out of the water.

    Canada's defense was excellent. Can't do much better than a shut-out at goal either.

    I saw Price shut out the Canes earlier this year. He was standing on his head as they say.

    Price has won at every level he's competed at.
    These to including in the major juniors as the WHL & CHL goaltender of the year, winning the Calder Trophy and tournament MVP at the AHL level, won Gold at the World Junior Championships as well tournament MVP and being named to the tournament all-star team as best goalie .
    Now he has his Olympic Gold and best goaltender at Sochi.

    The only awards left for him to win are the Stanley Cup and the Vezina Trophy

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by dgfred View Post
    5 goals against in the final kind of blows that out of the water.
    I'd take Jonathan Quick's back-up, Ryan Miller, over Corey Price every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    Or are you going to suggest that Price is a better netminder than Henrik Lundqvist on the basis of a 3-0 shutout in Canada's favor?

    Originally posted by dgfred View Post
    Canada's defense was excellent. Can't do much better than a shut-out at goal either.
    But look at the quality of the shots-on-goal that Price faced. Few of them were especially challenging, overwhelmingly garden-variety, mediocre. Both Quick and Lundqvist stood on their heads, made Vezina-worthy saves against the Canucks -- and both still lost.

    Originally posted by dgfred View Post
    I saw Price shut out the Canes earlier this year. He was standing on his head as they say.
    I dare say that that says more about the Hurricanes this year than it does about Price. Price is your classic neurotic goaltender: you never know who'll show up from one night to the next, Dr Jeckyll or Mr Hyde. And frankly, even at his best, Price isn't the tenth best goalie in the league. I'd put Rask, Bobrovsky, Halak, Elliott, Mike Smith, Niemi, and Bishop, as well as the aforementioned Quick, Lundqvist, and Miller ahead of Corey Price.

    Leave a comment:


  • dgfred
    replied
    5 goals against in the final kind of blows that out of the water.

    Canada's defense was excellent. Can't do much better than a shut-out at goal either.

    I saw Price shut out the Canes earlier this year. He was standing on his head as they say.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick_miester
    replied
    Originally posted by dgfred View Post
    IMO USA was weaker at goalie and defense... practice accordingly .
    USA was stronger in net, and man-for-man stronger on the blue line. USA was outcoached, first and foremost. Dan Bylsma relied too much on the individual talents of his forwards: see Patrick Kane's countless solo forays. From there it was all downhill.

    Babcock, Ruff, and Julien came up with a system that suited their time constraints and their players' talents -- and then they sold it to them. The players believed in it, and then executed it, almost flawlessly. It was easy for Corey Price to look brilliant: he faced few shots-on-goal, and most of those were of the weak and predicable variety, on account of the Canadians' very close and quick checking. That's what a good team defense looks like. The Canucks could have started Stephen Hawking in the pipes and gotten the same result.

    Alright, I was going for comedic effect there -- but you get the point.

    Leave a comment:

Latest Topics

Collapse

Working...
X