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Getting Dale Murphy into the Hall of Fame

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Checkertail20 View Post
    If you have a guy on base with no outs and you strike out it matters and it could decide a game. Strikeouts happen but you have to do something to make the defense work to get you out. A fielder could make an error that is the start of a big inning and decide the game.
    Or you hit into a double play. What's worse? What's statistically more likely?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
      Do your productive outs include pitch counts? If a guy strikes out after 5 pitches, he had a more productive AB than the guy who ripped the ball down the line on the first pitch, but the fielder made the play.
      Yes. Our goal/philosophy is to have a 5 pitch AB each time. Now, obviously that doesn't happen, but if we can get the inning pitch count over 15 (preferably over 20) we know that our chances of scoring runs goes up. Believe me, it takes time to get this philosophy to sink in. Good recruiting helps. Once it clicked and the team saw the benefits both on paper and on the field they started to praise each other for a 'good AB' = 5 pitches minimum.
      "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
      -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
        They are productive or not. Context is everything. Striking out leading off an inning is no worse than popping out. An out is an out. Striking out with no one out but a man on first is better than grounding into a double play.
        Now this I buy into. There are definitely times when a strike out is better than a double play. We also work very VERY hard on hitting the ball to right center/right. We spend probably 2/3 of our hitting drills on hitting behind runners.
        "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
        -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

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        • #19
          Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
          Or you hit into a double play. What's worse? What's statistically more likely?
          Speaking of context now, it also depends on the batter. We tend to use the hit and run a lot to 'break up' the possibility of a double play. Does it work - yes. Always - no. That's ball. Putting the runners in motion tends to get the defense moving as they are trained to respond to that. That opens up holes - usually
          "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
          -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Twitter3 View Post
            Now this I buy into. There are definitely times when a strike out is better than a double play. We also work very VERY hard on hitting the ball to right center/right. We spend probably 2/3 of our hitting drills on hitting behind runners.
            I need to track down some articles and I'm going from memory, but I think the only time that strikeouts are demonstrably a negative is when there is a runner on third and less than two outs. Otherwise statistically there is no difference in a strikeout vs some other form of out.

            Of course, this makes sense on in the context of the major leagues where fielding percentages are so high. In lower level baseball where errors are far more common, the statistics will be different.

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            • #21
              He was a big favorite of mine, a good guy, and a class act. Baseball misses his like at the moment.
              I also signed it. I'd MUCH rather him in the HOF than McGwire, Bonds, or Sosa.
              This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
                I need to track down some articles and I'm going from memory, but I think the only time that strikeouts are demonstrably a negative is when there is a runner on third and less than two outs. Otherwise statistically there is no difference in a strikeout vs some other form of out.

                Of course, this makes sense on in the context of the major leagues where fielding percentages are so high. In lower level baseball where errors are far more common, the statistics will be different.
                Ah, I see your point. With regards to "...no difference in a strikeout vs some other form of out." - put by putting the ball in play there is a chance that the runner can at least move up one base which is why we work on hitting behind the runner (even on the inside pitches a la Jeter). If the batter strikes out there is zero chance of the runner moving up. Some chance is better than zero chance. What do you think?
                "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rebpreacher View Post
                  He was a big favorite of mine, a good guy, and a class act. Baseball misses his like at the moment.
                  I also signed it. I'd MUCH rather him in the HOF than McGwire, Bonds, or Sosa.
                  If those three get in (and add Clemens), I will not visit the hall of fame ever. They won't get a penny from me. I will stick with my memories and let that be MY hall of fame.
                  "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                  -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I've never been there anyway. I won't be missing much then if they do.
                    This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Twitter3 View Post
                      Ah, I see your point. With regards to "...no difference in a strikeout vs some other form of out." - put by putting the ball in play there is a chance that the runner can at least move up one base which is why we work on hitting behind the runner (even on the inside pitches a la Jeter). If the batter strikes out there is zero chance of the runner moving up. Some chance is better than zero chance. What do you think?
                      If you are altering your swing to make contact, you are placing yourself in a worse position to not make an out. That's the bottom line in baseball, after all. Again I'm going from memory here, but IIRC the theory says that the percentage increase the hitter achieves by taking his best swing or not swinging at a borderline pitch will increase his OBP, which corresponds to less outs created and more runs scored. If it were otherwise, guys would be cutting down on their swings with two strikes. Almost no one does that anymore.

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                      • #26
                        I agree. We don't teach a passive two strike swing. We focus more on their state of mind, not fearing striking out (which really helped them to be more relaxed), and the thought of switching over from a small zone approach to a more open zone approach.
                        "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                        -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          They don't teach baseball 'properly' anymore. Nor do they fundamentals. It, to me, is all about the bomb. Screw that. Run the bases chump. Take pitches. Jeez, I ain't coaching anymore, what the hell?
                          This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rebpreacher View Post
                            I've never been there anyway. I won't be missing much then if they do.
                            I went to Cooperstown right after Brooks Robinson was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame and it is a must visit for any baseball fan. Even if you are not a baseball fan it is still a great place to visit with the James Fenimore Cooper House and the Farmers Museum. It is in Catskill Mountains and is gorgeous there and is great for camping.
                            “When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun'.”
                            ― Groucho Marx

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
                              They are productive or not. Context is everything. Striking out leading off an inning is no worse than popping out. An out is an out. Striking out with no one out but a man on first is better than grounding into a double play.
                              Popping out is the worst kind of out. Strike outs at least come with a shot at a passed ball, wild pitch and/or stolen base.

                              In the batting order context... #3 needs to walk more than he strikes out and not hit into a lot of DP's. #4 needs to hit at least 1 home run per 3 SO's and preferably more RBI than SO's.

                              This brings me full circle. If Maris & Hodges deserve HOF status, Murphy does.

                              Now, what about Ken Boyer, Don Mincher & Frank Howard?
                              Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                              • #30
                                Especially Ken Boyer-why isn't he already?
                                Truthfully, I have only been to NY once. That was with a group of us 'Georgia Mounties' after 9/11.
                                This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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