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Lance Armstrong should lose all recognition

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  • #31
    Never testing positive means essentially nothing. Jan Ulrich, Armstrong's greatest rival, passed the same tests and was only caught when the German police compared DNA samples taken from his house with blood bags from his Spanish doping supplier.

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    • #32
      I'm fairly sure Armstrong was just as doped up as all the others, so I see no reason to take his victories away.

      As far as him passing tests, there's convincing evidence ( that is somebody told me over a drink - not evidence in the classic historical sense ) - he and his entire team were tipped off by UCI and high ranking french government officials, helping them to anticipate controls on several occasions.

      Contrary to popular belief LA *had* friends in high ranking places in France.

      Most urine and blood checks can be passed given advanced warning, the most dangerous are police searches of the hotel and support cars - Bruyneel's teams have near magical ability to avoid those - not just Armstrong.

      Corruption and substance abuse are inherrent to cycling ever since it started - nothing much changed.

      Originally posted by Gooner View Post
      That is a step too far ..

      "Dr Tucker says you can see a marked difference between today and the bad old days when there were no tests for blood doping or drugs such as EPO.

      "In the late 1990s and early 2000s if you were going to be competitive and win the Tour de France you would have to be able to cycle between 6.4 and 6.7 watts per kilogram at the end of a day's stage.

      "What we are seeing now, in the last three or four years, is that the speed of the front of the peloton [of] men like Bradley Wiggins, Chris Froome and Vincenzo Nibali, is about 10% down compared to that generation and now the power output at the front is about 6W/kg."

      I think the days of doping are done.
      True of course - I'm fairly sure about Wiggins, his development throughout the years shows logic and consistency, wouldn't bet on people like Froome and Rogers however.

      Time will tell I guess
      Last edited by Snowygerry; 27 Aug 12, 03:44.
      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by NagaSadow View Post
        Never testing positive means essentially nothing. Jan Ulrich, Armstrong's greatest rival, passed the same tests and was only caught when the German police compared DNA samples taken from his house with blood bags from his Spanish doping supplier.
        No, never testing positive means *no proof*. Ulrich having provided proof with DNA has no connection whatsoever with Armstrong.

        There is no proof of Armstrong doping, that's why previous charges and accusations were dropped.
        "A common thug can kill someone, but it takes the talents of an intelligence service to make a murder appear to be a suicide or accident death." -- James Angleton, CIA, Chief of Counterintelligence.

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        • #34
          It is also used to build up the blood and strength in kidney failure patients on dialysis too.

          Originally posted by Surrey View Post
          Just a thought but isn't EPO used in the treatment of cancer? Could that be what showed up?
          This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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          • #35
            I think it is a witch-hunt.


            Originally posted by Persephone View Post
            However, the USADA can punish him with the lifetime ban, doesn't matter anyway....Lance is retired, financially stable and content to be a at-home dad.
            This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by NagaSadow View Post
              Never testing positive means essentially nothing. Jan Ulrich, Armstrong's greatest rival, passed the same tests and was only caught when the German police compared DNA samples taken from his house with blood bags from his Spanish doping supplier.
              We have this thing in the USA called 'innocent until proven guilty'. USADA is acting as Judge, Jury and Executioner without due process.
              Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

              "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

              What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.

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              • #37
                I thought he was tested and his samples were negative?
                "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised"
                Zap Brannigan. Futurama

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                • #38
                  Yup. But he UsADA doesn't care. They just don't like Lance.

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                  • #39
                    The evidence being presented today seems pretty damning, not to mention excoriating.

                    Originally posted by RichardS View Post
                    Ten people who were CAUGHT doping. Unlike Mr. Armstrong who was tested and never found to be doping. Geee. Who would you believe?
                    Except it transpires that George Hincapie also testified that not only was LA using banned substances from the mid '90s but he was in on it too. He never failed a drug test in his 19 year career either.

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                    • #40
                      Innocent until proven guilty is my first reaction.

                      A US citizen winning the TdF numerous times is bound to upset some.

                      A US government agency supporting the French speaks of a some type of deal beyond the veneer that we see.

                      On the otherhand why police drugs at all? If athletes want a gold but die before their time due to drugs, no tears from me.

                      PS: Lance's appearance in Dodgeball was excellent
                      How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                      Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                      • #41
                        LOL - I've met quite a few who worked in professional cycling in '90s - early 2000s -

                        They don't even claim "innocent untill proven guilty" - although most of them would never testify in a legal sense, they make no effort to deny widespread use and sale.

                        That includes people who worked for Johan Bruyneel in his ONCE years - seems he took the knowledge and contacts he gathered there to US postal and the rest - as they say - is history
                        High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                          On the otherhand why police drugs at all? If athletes want a gold but die before their time due to drugs, no tears from me.
                          What about the athletes who do not want to use drugs?

                          Michael Barry's statement:

                          "“Cycling has always been a part of my life. As a boy my dream was to become a professional cyclist who raced at the highest level in Europe. I achieved my goal when I first signed a contract with the United States Postal Service Cycling team in 2002. Soon after I realized reality was not what I had dreamed. Doping had become an epidemic problem in professional cycling.”

                          “Recently, I was contacted by United States Anti-Doping Agency to testify in their investigation into the use of performance enhancing drugs on the United States Postal Service Team. I agreed to participate as it allowed me to explain my experiences, which I believe will help improve the sport for today’s youth who aspire to be tomorrow’s champions.”

                          “After being encouraged by the team, pressured to perform and pushed to my physical limits I crossed a line I promised myself and others I would not: I doped. It was a decision I deeply regret. It caused me sleepless nights, took the fun out of cycling and racing, and tainted the success I achieved at the time. This was not how I wanted to live or race.”

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                          • #43
                            Such a shame. I especially hate how sophisticated the doping was and the effort they went through to avoid or get through drug tests.

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                            • #44
                              Don't think it was exceptional to US postal - most everybody was in on it.

                              He was still the best of the doped up ones.

                              A shame indeed for those that had a career ruined because of it, hard to verify of course, but those are entitled to compensation imho.
                              High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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                              • #45
                                Hiding it in the dairy box and calling it 'butter?'
                                His ex was in on it?
                                At first I thought it was a witch hunt.
                                Once all this evidence is in, and the bank statements, and a doctor called Ferrari? It is damning for sure.
                                This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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