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  • Does the RIAA want to sue You

    On June 25, 2003, the RIAA (Recording Industry of America) announced that it would be collecting "evidence" to sue online Peer-to-Peer users who it believes illegally trade music online. They are scanning these services looking for copyrighted music. Once found, they download the song, and log the username, IP Address, and time/date of download. This information is then used to issue subpoenas to ISPs who, based on recent court rulings, must turnover the name and address of the individual.

    If you shared files on Kazaa and other P2P servers after June 25, 2003, and live in the US (I believe that's the limit right now), you might be a target of a multimillion dollar lawsuit very soon.

    Electronic Frontier Foundation is offering a username query for people to check and see if their username is listed in the PACER system, which covers the subpoenas being issued. There are over 871 issued as of last week, with approximately, 75 new subpoenas being requested per day.

    http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/riaasubpoenas/

    EFF intends to offer a IP Address query system soon as well.
    "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

  • #2
    That **** will never fly.

    The RIAA is irrelevant.
    "Speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European as well, it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans. They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own Michael Moore, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities." - Christopher Hitchens

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    • #3
      As long as congressmen keep backing them they are hardly irrelevant.

      The amount of effort they expended fighting Verizon to release the identity of one of their users was absurd, considering the guy was a small fish.

      They are going to make some examples of people... or try to.
      "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

      – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MikeJ
        As long as congressmen keep backing them they are hardly irrelevant.

        The amount of effort they expended fighting Verizon to release the identity of one of their users was absurd, considering the guy was a small fish.

        They are going to make some examples of people... or try to.
        They will try...but the genie is out of the bottle. Nobody is going to stop downloading anything no matter what they do. No one is going to take their lawsuit threats seriously. With all they did to shut down napster, the amount of people sharing music has only increased. They need to give it up already.
        "Speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European as well, it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans. They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own Michael Moore, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities." - Christopher Hitchens

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        • #5
          Unless given expressed permission by the musician or artist who has created what is recorded in some medium, nobody has the right to distribute that recording. Nobody. You do not even have the right to make a copy for just one person. The only time you can collect a copy of some recording is by recording from some radio or television broadcast. Everything else is robbery, plain and simple. I know the recording industry is a bunch of money grubbing crooks, but that's not the musicians' fault. When you distribute their work without their permission, you are stealing from them too.

          Oh yeah ... plenty of musicians are also money grubbing crooks, but stealing is stealing.
          Get the US out of NATO, now!

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          • #6
            People won't stop downloading . That's true. But the RIAA certainly has the money and resources to drag a lot of people to court who will, rather than spend money on a lawyer defending themselves, mostly cut a lenient deal and be done with it. It will be enough to make people think twice though.

            That's not irrelevant. They can't stop the flood, but that doesn't mean they are irrelevant.

            Since my profession is dependent on people obeying intellectual property rights and copyright laws, I'm kind of sympathetic to the principle. But I'm not with them at all on how they go about doing it. Lowering prices and giving people value for their money would yield far better results for all involved parties.
            "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

            – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

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            • #7
              Heard an interesting comment the other day.

              How does dl'n music differ from taping a T.V. show or movie on your VCR or DVD-R?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SkyVon
                Heard an interesting comment the other day.

                How does dl'n music differ from taping a T.V. show or movie on your VCR or DVD-R?

                Networks earn from the advertising either way, which is their primary source of income.

                Not the case with music. Royalties paid by radio stations aren't a big part of the revenue stream (at least, I don't think so).
                "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

                – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

                Comment


                • #9
                  More than one group has said they make very little off of record sales...touring is where the money is at for them. It's the record companies that are hit hardest by Napster, et al.

                  In fact, several groups are in favor of dl'n music. Their thoughts being that if my music can get out to more people, then I'll fill more seats at my shows.

                  Perhaps if the record companies LOWERED CD prices to a realistic amount, people wouldn't be so inclined to use a Kazaa. I have no problem paying $10 for a CD while I do have a problem paying $20.

                  MikeJ is correct (GASP!!! I’ve finally agreed with him on something...I'm surely going to hell now ), the product being put out these days is, for the most part, crap. One good song on a CD does not entice the average Joe to fork over $20; especially when they can dl it for free.

                  Too many groups out there with too little talent...I now long for the 70's where we had Zep, the Who and many other groups that put out solid albums loaded with top 40 material. You really got your moneys worth then!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SkyVon

                    Too many groups out there with too little talent...I now long for the 70's where we had Zep, the Who and many other groups that put out solid albums loaded with top 40 material. You really got your moneys worth then!
                    Amen !!!

                    Luckily I'll be availling myself (along with another 1/2 million people) of the opportunity to take in a little bit of Stones, AC/DC, Rush and The Guess Who in Toronto on July 30th.
                    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SkyVon
                      More than one group has said they make very little off of record sales...touring is where the money is at for them. It's the record companies that are hit hardest by Napster, et al.
                      Yeah, but the labels are making the money off the CDs and the RIAA represents them most of all, don't they?

                      Lower prices is the win-win solution for all but that's not going to happen anymore in the software industry than it is in the music industry.
                      "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

                      – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The RIAA is not crusading to protect copyrighted material. It's eliminating competition. This is nothing more than the abuse of our legal system to promote a marketing strategy that favors the producer and not the consumer. If the recording industry were really out to protect copyrighted material, it would simply adapt to the changing environment and call for somekind of liability tax.

                        If I'm not mistaken, this has already occurred in one form. I believe you pay a small fee everytime you buy a CD-R or recording drive. This eventually end up in the hands of the recording industry. The presumption that copyrighted material would be placed on CD-Rs was enough to warrant the fee. A similar technique can be employed now.

                        Whether you know it or not, we have all likely committed some form of copyright infringement. Copying and pasting an article to this forum without permission could be considered copyright infringement. So can using "Spell Checker" in MS Word, or a dictionary.

                        The laws are outdated. The RIAA is exploiting this fact to their advantage. If the American people don't stop this, our legal system will become an avenue for big business to abuse to stop technological advances that threaten their profit margin. Their zeal could also lead to gross invasions of privacy in ways none of us will feel comfortable with. I think it's in the American people's best interest to fight the RIAA through numbers, boycotts, and pressuring Congress. Big business believes people will just *itch and moan for a while, but eventually accept their position. Americans need to kill that ideal and punish the music industry.

                        Online piracy can't be stopped. P2P is a convenient method, but not the only one available. Two weeks after announcing this offensive, kids had already come up with software that can block IP addresses. (I wouldn't use it. There really is no way to remain anonymous on P2P networks, even if you use high anonymity proxies and chain proxies.) If people have an alternate way, they will exploit it. Instead of outlawing a method that is used by anywhere from 30-60 million people, the RIAA should be doing what every other business is doing with the Internet, learning how to make money off of it.

                        I agree that alot of this music out isn't worth the space on your PC. Artists are increasingly turning to old beats and just adding new lyrics, that could have been written by two year olds. I pretty much listen to the oldies. Marvin Gaye, the Average White Band, O'Jays, etc were all making music before I was born, but were truly artists.

                        Or maybe we're all just getting old!!!!!!!!!!!
                        "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If your music is good, you will make your money as a musician with recording distribution, not tours. If you have become a pseudo-cult like The Grateful Dead did, then touring is for you. The sad truth was that the music of the Grateful Dead in its later days was not up to its original standards. The music of groups that tour instead of selling recordings like Fish can't sell recordings because their music is not anywhere as good as the Grateful Dead. Naturally bands like that don't care if their music is downloaded off the internet since they couldn't sell it at the record stores no matter how cheap it was. That is not where the recording industry or musicians have something to gripe about. The criminal part of P2P "file sharing" is where the recording albums and singles are still some of the best around. Think of somebody like the Beatles and the individual artists that made them up. That stuff is still moving at the music stores. It is still great music. You distribute any of that music on the internet, you are in some deep doo-doo and you are not going to find any sympathy anywhere.

                          Yes, it is all still way over priced and it is a bit of a mystery why that is. Meanwhile movie DVDs of some very decent movies can be had for half the price of your average CD album. Why is that? What do the P2P'ers say about moving DVDs?
                          Last edited by SparceMatrix; 26 Jul 03, 23:25.
                          Get the US out of NATO, now!

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                          • #14
                            It is important to note this goes beyond copyright infringement. Right now, our court system is giving the RIAA the right to obtain sensitive information about an online user without first validating if there is anykind of credible evidence to warrant such an infringement on privacy. Does anyone know for certain the RIAA is legally obtaining the IP addresses as suggested? Are they really taking the time to download songs? Does the RIAA have the song downloaded saved? These are questions the lack of oversight is permitting. The RIAA's software has made mistakes in the past. I would think it would need alot more evidence than just a log to confirm a copyrighted song was downloaded, and not an error.

                            The RIAA might be stepping on our Constitutional rights. What is to stop them from assuming a P2P user is trading pirated material, without proving it? This is a dangerous new twist to American justice, that I believe challenges one's rights. If allowed to continue, individuals will be able to file subpoenas, demanding a person's information without presenting serious evidence.

                            We need to stop the RIAA. It's shredding due process to prevent itself from moving out of the stone age and into the 21st Century. No organization should be given the power the courts have provided the Recording Industry.
                            "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SparceMatrix
                              If your music is good, you will make your money as a musician with recording distribution, not tours.
                              From all that I've read and my very brief walk in the music industry, I have to differ.

                              Groups make a few cents off every dollar sold from sales. Sure, thats some money, but nothing compared to what they make from touring. Record compaines usually get squat from the tours. The money they make off of tours comes from increased (hopefully) record sales. The groups make loads off of ticket prices and merchandise. After a decent tour you can hear the band saying "back-up the trucks."

                              Also, keep in mind that the talent/record company relationship is a love/hate one. The talent hates the RC and the RC loves the money the talent brings in. Thus, the talent is all for getting more and more people into their music, no matter how it's done. There are a few acts (Metallica) that have sold their souls to the RC so they will continue to be their mouthpiece.

                              BTW, what does all this have to do with taking Russia before the U.S. activates?

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