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  • Canadians hurl abuse at U.S. hockey peewees

    Canadians hurl abuse at U.S. hockey peewees

    By INGRID PERITZ
    Wednesday, April 2, 2003 - Page A1

    MONTREAL -- A peewee hockey tournament in Montreal became a trip into hostile territory for a busload of Americans who say they encountered such fierce anti-Americanism that they will think twice before returning.

    During a four-day visit, boys travelling with their Massachusetts hockey team witnessed the burning of the Stars and Stripes and the booing of the U.S. national anthem. When travelling in their bus emblazoned with a red-white-and-blue "Coach USA" logo, they saw people on the street who extended their middle fingers or made other angry gestures.

    On the ice, the Canadian players told their visiting counterparts that "the U.S. sucks" and dispensed other anti-American insults, the Americans said.

    "It was a shock to go to a tournament and have kids saying this to us. These are our friends that are doing this," Brockton Boxers coach Ernest Nadeau said.

    "We didn't expect Canadian players -- especially young boys -- would take things to that extreme," he said in an interview.

    The 11- and 12-year-old boys from Brockton, 30 kilometres south of Boston, had been looking forward to the hockey tournament in Montreal. But parents who accompanied them said they were unprepared for the depth of anti-American sentiment over the U.S.-led war against Iraq.

    One parent, Bill Carpenter, was so upset he cancelled his family's vacation to Quebec this summer.

    "We were very offended by the whole thing," said Mr. Carpenter, who accompanied two sons on the trip.

    "I understand the opposition to the war. But we were made to feel unwelcome just about anywhere we went.

    "Montreal is a 5½-hour drive for us. It's not like we were travelling to Syria or France or Germany," he said. "As Americans, we felt in the past that Canada was our closest ally and friend. No one told us we were heading into unfriendly territory."

    The trip soured soon after the Americans rolled into Montreal on March 20.

    Their bus entered downtown Montreal just as hundreds of college and university students were marching through the streets in an antiwar demonstration. Police cruisers spotted the U.S. bus and escorted it to its hotel on Sherbrooke Street as a safety precaution. A police officer urged the visitors to remain in the bus until the protest passed.

    The children watched as several demonstrators made obscene gestures toward the bus. A U.S. flag was dragged through the street.

    "We felt horrible," Mr. Nadeau said. "How would you feel if the Canadian flag was dragged down the streets in the U.S.A.? This is a country that's supposed to be our ally."

    That night, about a dozen families went to the Montreal Canadiens-New York Islanders game at the Montreal Bell Centre, a much-anticipated visit planned months in advance. In a gesture later condemned, the U.S. national anthem was widely booed by the crowd, leaving the visiting American children perplexed.

    "The kids were just questioning, 'Why are they doing this?' " said David Cruise, who was there with his 12-year-old son. "It's hard for them to realize we weren't in America any more; we were in a different country.

    "I said, 'They're booing our national anthem because they don't like us.' "

    Mr. Cruise felt so uncomfortable that he left with his son after the first period. "Whether you're for or against the war, we have guys over there dying," Mr. Cruise said. "The next time, we'll stay in the States. I'm not going back there again."

    The visitors say anti-American comments continued when the young players faced off against the Beverly Bandits, a team from Beverly, Ont. U.S. players say the Canadians hurled insults during face-offs and at other times.

    "They told us we sucked, gave us the finger and said 'Down with the U.S.A.' or 'The U.S.A. sucks," Mr. Nadeau said. At one point, a Canadian player made a disparaging remark about the United States "and the referee turned around and said, 'I agree with you.' "What stunned us was that the referee, who is supposed to be unbiased, is agreeing with the boys on the ice."

    His players "wanted to retaliate" against the Canadians, but Mr. Nadeau said he urged them "not to do anything foolish."

    Denis Desrochers, president of the minor hockey team in Beverly, west of Hamilton, said in an interview that he had heard nothing about the anti-American slurs.

    "It boggles my mind that the kids would say that. They don't even talk about it," he said. "I wouldn't tolerate it. Whether you're American or Canadian, you're not allowed to swear at any kids." On Saturday, Mr. Carpenter went for a walk downtown with his two children as another antiwar demonstration unfolded in Montreal -- one of several that drew huge crowds in a province staunchly opposed to the war.

    Mr. Carpenter came across a knot of demonstrators surrounding a protester who, with an Iraqi flag and a U.S. flag, had climbed atop a traffic light.

    The crowd cheered when the man waved the Iraqi flag, and booed the U.S. flag, Mr. Carpenter said. Then the protester doused the U.S. flag in kerosene.

    "It went up in a puff of smoke and flames, and the crowd went wild. They were all cheering," said Mr. Carpenter, whose 24-year-old son, a U.S. Marine, was sent to retrieve bodies of Americans killed in the 2001 terrorist bombing of USS Cole in Yemen.

    Mr. Carpenter tried to explain the anti-American displays to his children. "I said to my kids, 'These folks disagree with our government, not you personally.' "

    As they crossed the border into the United States, cheers went up in the bus. "We were very, very happy to get back home," Mr. Nadeau said.
    "Speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European as well, it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans. They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own Michael Moore, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities." - Christopher Hitchens

  • #2
    I highly doubt these morons represented the Canadian people as a whole. If you're so insecured you would allow politics to effect a pee wee hockey game, well that is just a statement of how pathetic you are. The police department did a good job of protecting our citizens.

    Of course, I do have a temper. If someone flicked off or threatened my beloved little cousin, the fight would be on. Then again, when the kid said USA sucked, he cousin probably would have said something crude like "not like your mom." (I let him watch South Park.)
    Last edited by Deltapooh; 03 Apr 03, 03:22.
    "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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    • #3
      Pathetic. No need to say anything more.
      "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

      – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

      Comment


      • #4
        As a Canadian, I find this behaviour abhorent and it does a great disservice to our American cousins.
        To treat a group of 11-12 year olds in this fashion disgusts me.

        All I can say is those Canadian kids are lucky I wasn't their coach. If what the story says happened actually happened, they would have been sent to the locker room and told to change.
        Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tigersqn
          As a Canadian, I find this behaviour abhorent and it does a great disservice to our American cousins.
          To treat a group of 11-12 year olds in this fashion disgusts me.

          All I can say is those Canadian kids are lucky I wasn't their coach. If what the story says happened actually happened, they would have been sent to the locker room and told to change.
          Is it just me, or is anti-americanism in Canada mainly in Quebec?
          It seems to me outside of Quebec, Canadians are much more supportive. Montreal could just be the Canada's "San Francisco".
          "Speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European as well, it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans. They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own Michael Moore, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities." - Christopher Hitchens

          Comment


          • #6
            I wouldn't call it anti-americanism. That implies hating all Americans does it not?

            They are expressing political views, just at the wrong people. That doesn't mean they hate Americans. I'm sure most of them know Americans and have American friends.

            I'm fairly certain you meant what anti-Bush/anti-US poilcy. I just wanted to put that down for the record as it seems there is a lot of (mis?)use of that term on this board and it's not clear to me what everyone acutally thinks anti-Americanism is.
            "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

            – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kid kool


              Is it just me, or is anti-americanism in Canada mainly in Quebec?
              It seems to me outside of Quebec, Canadians are much more supportive. Montreal could just be the Canada's "San Francisco".
              How can Quebecers be Anti-American ? Half of them spend their golden years in Florida.

              Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MikeJ
                I wouldn't call it anti-americanism. That implies hating all Americans does it not?

                They are expressing political views, just at the wrong people. That doesn't mean they hate Americans. I'm sure most of them know Americans and have American friends.

                I'm fairly certain you meant what anti-Bush/anti-US poilcy. I just wanted to put that down for the record as it seems there is a lot of (mis?)use of that term on this board and it's not clear to me what everyone acutally thinks anti-Americanism is.
                No, i disagree. People who are anti-American typically are against most things American. This includes American culture, which they perceive as philistine and crude. Foreigners view of "American imperialism" is not limited to the use of military force. Rather, they view the mere presence of crass commercial American products on their shelves as imperialism. Lenin wrote a book on this titled "Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism".

                Sure they are expressing their political views, but those happen to views which run contrary to all things America has historically stood for such as capitalism, right to bear arms, individual liberty and personal responsibility. If someone is burning a U.S. flag, they are anti-American. If someone runs a site like http://****france.com they are anti-french.
                "Speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European as well, it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans. They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own Michael Moore, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities." - Christopher Hitchens

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MikeJ
                  I wouldn't call it anti-americanism. That implies hating all Americans does it not?

                  They are expressing political views, just at the wrong people. That doesn't mean they hate Americans. I'm sure most of them know Americans and have American friends.

                  I'm fairly certain you meant what anti-Bush/anti-US poilcy. I just wanted to put that down for the record as it seems there is a lot of (mis?)use of that term on this board and it's not clear to me what everyone acutally thinks anti-Americanism is.
                  I wouldnt call it anti-Americansim either.
                  I'm not behind Saddam, but nor am I with a renegade Bush, that does not mean i'm anti-every-single-American I meet, I just believe 2 wrongs don't make a right.

                  But even so, i'd rather be the 'innocent' 12 year old being booed on the skating rink than the 'innnocent' 12 year old who just watched his entire family get blown to smithereens by an errant bomb....
                  There are only 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that dont...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kid kool


                    No, i disagree. People who are anti-American typically are against most things American. This includes American culture, which they perceive as philistine and crude. Foreigners view of "American imperialism" is not limited to the use of military force. Rather, they view the mere presence of crass commercial American products on their shelves as imperialism. Lenin wrote a book on this titled "Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism".

                    Sure they are expressing their political views, but those happen to views which run contrary to all things America has historically stood for such as capitalism, right to bear arms, individual liberty and personal responsibility. If someone is burning a U.S. flag, they are anti-American. If someone runs a site like http://****france.com they are anti-french.
                    So a person who is against US government policy is labelled as Anti-American in your book ?



                    You guys should exile 35-40% of your population in that case.



                    That would probably take care of the illegal alien problem eh ?
                    Last edited by tigersqn; 03 Apr 03, 04:50.
                    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tigersqn


                      So a person who is against US government policy is labelled as Anti-American in your book ?



                      You guys should exile 35-40% of your population in that case.


                      It is one things to be against current policy. It is another to be against all things American has historically stood for. I would say about 20% of the U.S. is anti-American mostly the "kook" factions of the far left and the "conspiracy theory" whackos of the right. Unfortunately, even though these groups make up a small insignificant portion of the American population, the views of the Green party, http://cpusa.org/ and the "hollywood kook left" represent mainstream opinion in many foreign countries.
                      "Speaking here in my capacity as a polished, sophisticated European as well, it seems to me the laugh here is on the polished, sophisticated Europeans. They think Americans are fat, vulgar, greedy, stupid, ambitious and ignorant and so on. And they've taken as their own Michael Moore, as their representative American, someone who actually embodies all of those qualities." - Christopher Hitchens

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kid kool



                        It is one things to be against current policy. It is another to be against all things American has historically stood for. I would say about 20% of the U.S. is anti-American mostly the "kook" factions of the far left and the "conspiracy theory" whackos of the right. Unfortunately, even though these groups make up a small insignificant portion of the American population, the views of the Green party, http://cpusa.org/ and the "hollywood kook left" represent mainstream opinion in many foreign countries.
                        Run that by me again, 1/5th of the US population is 'insignificant'?
                        There are only 10 types of people in the world, those that understand binary, and those that dont...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kid kool


                          No, i disagree. People who are anti-American typically are against most things American.
                          Well, I disagree with this. The same people who hurled insults again these poor hockey players are the same ones who relish and like American movies, who listened to American TV shows and probably have a lot of American singers and bands CD at home. And all these guys probably have been more than once in the U.S., either for vacation or business. Most Canadians don't easily admit it, but we are closer to the American people than we think. It's just that it is unfortunately fashionable to be anti-American these days, even if it is in a superficial way.

                          That being said, I certainly find it embarrassing the behavior of these people, especially that is happening in Montreal where I live. This kind of behavior is a shame. Perhaps the incidents were not as important as they seem to be in this article since this has gone completely unnoticed in the Canadian or Montreal media so far (some patriotic reporter might have decided to "juice up" the story somewhat more). It's true that in Montreal, the anti-war feeling is very strong. I almost look like an extraterrestrial when I tell people I am not opposed to the U.S. action in Iraq. Still, the vast majority of people here are open and polite and are usually much more known for their happy greeting of Americans (Montreal does greet quite a lot of American tourists every year).

                          Some complement of information that Americans probably didn't get: the day after the American national anthem was booed 2 or 3 weeks ago during a Montreal Canadiens / NY Islanders game, the president of the Canadiens hockey team publicly presented apologies to the American people by saying that this behavior from the fans was wrong. The Quebec Premier (Prime Minister) also intervened and publicly reminded all Quebecers that the Star Spangled Banner is the national anthem of all Americans, not only the pro-war Americans but also the anti-war Americans, and that by showing disrespect to the anthem they were showing disrespect to all Americans as a whole. It was wrong, and at the following hockey game, nobody booed the Star Spangled Banner in Montreal, and it has not been booed anymore.
                          Last edited by Tzar; 03 Apr 03, 08:50.

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                          • #14
                            All of you Posters

                            My only regeat is that we are to far geographicaly from each other, otherway I will be pleased to speak directly with you in a French café, UK Pub, drinking coke beer or wine and arguing peacefully,

                            you will see that we are men, or women not very far from each others as human beings. that's the most important, sbecause we are all in love with freedom and democracy

                            Der wanderer
                            The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
                            JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
                            The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

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