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  • D-Day

    So when will it happen ? How will it happen ? I found this article very amusing, I wonder if those poor Iraqi's believe that they won't be attacked ? And the one's that realise it will happen think they can actually put up a fight against the largest co-ordinated air/missile bombardment is history ?

    Quote:

    BAGHDAD - Iraq on Sunday gloated over the global outpouring of opposition to the U.S. threat of attack, saying anti-war demonstrations in dozens of countries signaled an Iraqi victory and "the defeat and isolation of America."

    Iraq's tightly controlled news media gave prominent coverage to anti-war demonstrations staged around the world on Saturday. Iraqi television showed footage of millions marching in the world's cities - under the logo "International Day of Confronting the Aggression."

    "The world said with one voice: 'No to aggression on Iraq,"' read a headline in the government daily Al-Jumhuriya. "The world rises against American aggression and the arrogance of naked force," read a front page headline in the army daily Al-Qadissiya.

    "These demonstrations expressed in their spirit, meaning and slogans the decisive Iraqi victory and the defeat and isolation of America," Al-Jumhuriya said in a commentary.

    Iraq staged its own demonstrations on Saturday, when tens of thousands of people, many carrying assault rifles and portraits of Saddam Hussein, took to the streets of several Iraqi cities to pledge their loyalty to the Iraqi leader in the face of U.S. threats to attack the Arab nation.

    Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz left Italy on Sunday, capping a visit and a papal audience with an appeal to the United States to listen to protests against a war in Iraq.

    "My message to the United States is that it should hear the voice of the international public opinion," Aziz said at Rome's Leonardo da Vinci airport.

    The United States and Britain accuse Iraq of concealing weapons of mass destruction prohibited under U.N. resolutions adopted at the end of the 1991 Gulf War. They say they will disarm Iraq by force if necessary.

    Saddam on Saturday reiterated that Iraq was free of weapons of mass destruction and said talk of deposing him was "impertinent."

    "They talk about changing the Iraqi regime at a time when they also speak about respecting the will of nations and falsely boast about their so-called democracy," he told papal peace envoy Cardinal Roger Etchegaray on Saturday, official news media said.

    In contrast to the international peace protests on Saturday, the mood of Iraq's demonstrations was defiant, echoing the official Iraqi rhetoric of the past several months: Iraq wants peace but it is also ready for war, should one start.

    "On our land, thank God, we have enough resolve, determination and faith, and enough men and supplies, to fight for 10 years," Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said in Cairo on Saturday.

  • #2
    LOL

    Hello,

    10 years? You have to be kidding me! 10 years! Germany didn't survive that long, and she had more people, better military training, and better military technology than Iraq, how the hell does Iraq expect survive a deadly onslaught of US Marines, airpower, Abram tanks, and airborne divisions?

    In all honesty, I think it's going to be a quick war -- doesn't mean it won't be bloody, but a quick one. I estimate it will take at least a month to capture most of territory in Iraq easily, with another month (or at least a couple of weeks) of heavy fighting around Baghdad area.

    Dan
    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

    "Aim small, miss small."

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: LOL

      Originally posted by Cheetah772
      Hello,

      10 years? You have to be kidding me! 10 years! Germany didn't survive that long, and she had more people, better military training, and better military technology than Iraq, how the hell does Iraq expect survive a deadly onslaught of US Marines, airpower, Abram tanks, and airborne divisions?

      In all honesty, I think it's going to be a quick war -- doesn't mean it won't be bloody, but a quick one. I estimate it will take at least a month to capture most of territory in Iraq easily, with another month (or at least a couple of weeks) of heavy fighting around Baghdad area.

      Dan
      ...and the Challengers, the Royal Marines, the Paras etc.....

      Comment


      • #4
        War will start sometime between 3 March to 24 March. I think some action will begin around 3/5 March if the US/UK can get the SC to agree a new resolution next week.
        However bear in mind that the ships carrying US 4th Division equipment are still in Greek ports and off the coast of Turkey.
        As you know the Turks are taking a principled stand on the deployment of US invasion forves in their country. In other words they want MORE MONEY before they can acceed to the request for US rights of passage.
        The British 'Desert Rats' are reported to be still in Germany. About 1,000 Paras flew out from the UK yesterday for the 'Gulf'. As it takes 2/3 weeks to get acclimatised they would just be about ready to go 3 March. Maybe the advance on Basra will begin then.
        http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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        • #5
          Re: D-Day

          Originally posted by Marko

          "On our land, thank God, we have enough resolve, determination and faith, and enough men and supplies, to fight for 10 years," Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said in Cairo on Saturday.
          10 years eh ? So that's what happened to all the supplies that were meant for the survival of the Iraqi people in the oil for food program.

          Back to the question at hand. I think Wolf Tone got it pretty good. Though I would expect action to start a little later; somewhere around the 11th of March. These preliminary actions will hardly be noticed in my opinion. It will mainly be the advanced positioning of forces.

          I would expect the real action to begin on or near the 23rd of March. There has been much said about what "experts" call "shock and awe" where up to 400 cruise missiles and several thousand JDAMs are launched within minutes of each other. Sorta like the ultimate "fire for effect" barrage.

          The reasoning here is that an attack of this magnitude would simultaniously cripple all C3I systems in Iraq as well as the air defence network, rendering Saddam's control of his military forces impossible.
          Last edited by tigersqn; 20 Feb 03, 16:33.
          Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

          Comment


          • #6
            "On our land, thank God, we have enough resolve, determination and faith, and enough men and supplies, to fight for 10 years," Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said in Cairo on Saturday.

            Fine we'll just take it in the eleventh. (I recall someone making the same boast to the Roman Army. The Roman commander said they'll just take it in the 11th year.)

            As Wolfe Tone suggested, March seems to be the time frame. If Turkey doesn't cooperate, the US might have to actually base units in Kurdish controlled terrorities in Northern Iraq. However, I think they will cooperate soon. The Turks need whatever aid they can get. The US made their final offer. Turkey might not like it, but it's better than nothing.

            I believe we already have troops on the ground. Special Operations Forces are likely in the north, south, and west. US and UK jets continue their attacks on Iraqi ADA in southern Iraq. While we are waiting for the 101st and 4 ID, some speculate the war can go forward without these units. (I doubt it though.)

            Either way Saddam is screwed unless he gets smart. He can really throw a monkey wrench in Bush's game by simply giving up large numbers of WMDs and promising to turnover more in the coming weeks and months. Saddam won't do that though. Like in 1990, he usually opts for all or nothing.
            "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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            • #7
              Good.

              Nothing is what I'd like to see him have.
              "When I am abroad I always make it a rule never to criticize or attack the Government of my country. I make up for lost time when I am at home."

              Winston Churchill

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              • #8
                Canada is pulling most of its diplomatic personnel out of most Middle Eastern countries. UK and the US have already given their citizens travel advisories.
                Things are starting to heat up. Wolfe Tone's 3rd March date is looking better all the time.
                Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

                Comment


                • #9
                  As it now looks that Turkey will agree next week to US requests,
                  the 4ID, + elements of 1 Cav and 1 Arm will start deploying and moving towards the Iraqi border within the next 7 days. However that really is 2-WEEK OPERATION before that transfer would be completed. Maybe ready to roll into northern Iraq on 10 March.


                  Heard last night that 101 + a brigade of 82nd are deploying in Kuwait but we are probably well into the 'disinformation' phase by now. Only time will tell I guess. Reports also say that British Paras will be used to seize the Fao peninsula but again who knows for sure outside of the Allied High Command.

                  I think though that Bush wants to get some military action underway sooner rather than later. As you know there is no moonlight on night of 3 March and a night attack by the US forces then will maximize their technological advantage over the Iraqis at that time. If they attack in mid March that effect will be lost.
                  Also why it makes good military sense to attack from two different directions against an inferior force it is not absolutely vital.

                  I get the feeling that the War will start before the northern element of the attack force is in place. By the time they are ready Basra will have fallen and the Iraqi military will be much reduced
                  in it's ability to respond to US moves. This would help the northern force as they are to some degree out on a limb. Of course the Turks will cross the border in strength but it remains to be seen whether they will see action or not, and also against whom they fight, the Sunnis or the Kurds!
                  http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I thought one of the other sticking points the Turks had to an attack from their territory was that the Kurds want any Turkish forces entering northern Iraq to be under US command,something that the Turks were opposed to.Has something changed in that situation?

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                    • #11
                      CNN is reporting the UK and US will submit new Resolution next week with a vote coming in mid-March. This is outrageous. Why don't we just invite Saddam to view our battle plans to pass the time. This new resolution BS means it will probably early April before an invasion gets started. Our troops will have to combat the desert heat, as well as the Iraqi military.

                      Bush is taking a huge diplomatic risk by waiting this long. What if Saddam get's smart and gives up 1,000 tons of bio weapons? What if Blix's comes in a give Iraq a - A for cooperation? All these things don't have to signal long term commitment by Saddam, just delaying action. Why are we going to be so stupid as to give the man another opportunity to slap us in the face?

                      We should have been ready to go for a Februray to March invasion. End of story. All this back peddling diplomatic maneuvering will likely end with additional embarrassments, and give the enemy a political chance to pull off the upset just before the clocks runs out.

                      We need to end this game ASAP.

                      :sigh:
                      "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by John Paul
                        I thought one of the other sticking points the Turks had to an attack from their territory was that the Kurds want any Turkish forces entering northern Iraq to be under US command,something that the Turks were opposed to.Has something changed in that situation?
                        I've heard the US has agreed that no Kurdish State will be allowed. This was, IIRC, a huge sticking point along with the aid money Turkey wanted (can't blame them, last gulf war hurt their economy something fierce)

                        _Tim
                        "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tim McBride


                          I've heard the US has agreed that no Kurdish State will be allowed. This was, IIRC, a huge sticking point along with the aid money Turkey wanted (can't blame them, last gulf war hurt their economy something fierce)

                          _Tim
                          Typical though eh ? You thought of all the good that could come out of this war would be a free Kurdish State - but no, they will be continually opressed by the Turks for more decades to come. Shame.

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                          • #14
                            Marko, I think you're confusing Bush with Blair. Blair is the one really pushing this invasion on moral reasons. Bush is going solely with the WMDs. Though he brings up the moral issue when convenient.
                            "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Deltapooh
                              Marko, I think you're confusing Bush with Blair. Blair is the one really pushing this invasion on moral reasons. Bush is going solely with the WMDs. Though he brings up the moral issue when convenient.
                              Bush is going for the oil, don't kid yourself. The WMD's are just an excuse for regime change to safeguard a future supply of oil in the future. Even if it's not for US consumption, the US would feel better if a mad tyrant did not have the world's second largest oil reserves. And Blair isn't doing it for moral reasons he is doing it for the Americans, he is Bush's puppet and is just doing his duty.

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