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Why does size bring out flies? - A discussion on size and inherent corruption.

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  • Why does size bring out flies? - A discussion on size and inherent corruption.

    If it hasn't already been given a name, you can call it Pirateship's Principle. But I have noticed that corruption and size go inherently together. No matter what institution you are dealing with - politics, business, unions, religion, the bigger the organization is, the more likely the institution is to become filthy as sin.

    The DNC defies the will of the American people, the Catholic Church is still reeling from sex abuse scandals covered up by the very ones who should have destroyed the infection, the SEIU, Teamsters, and other big unions are comprised of criminals that make Capone's crew look like a Girl Scout cookie stand, the list goes on.

    There is no doubt in my mind that size draws corruption. But what I am interested in is why size draws corruption. What is the science behind the infection, that the biggest organizations are most succeptible to rot.

    I would imagine impersonal management has something to do with it. It's easy to close down a plant in the name of Mexican labor and kill a town if it's some town you've never heard of and your workers aren't laboring below you on the factory floor.

    It also does seem to be a law of infection that complex systems are easier to infest. The human body is a breeding ground for all sorts of nasty things but what makes a virus sick? A computer virus can wipe out a modern computer but you can't screw up an Apple IIgs with anything short of a hammer. They run as well now as they did 30 years ago.

    Any opinions on this? Why is it that big so often means corrupt?
    Last edited by Pirateship1982; 25 Mar 10, 18:07.
    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

  • #2
    power corrupts. bigger = more powerful = more corrupt.

    right?
    Ha, wie so stolz und hehr
    Wirft über Land und Meer
    Weithin der deutsche Aar
    Flammenden Blick.

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    • #3
      Best place to hide a leaf is in the forrest (old american indian proverb)
      Sealion would have failed..............runs,

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      • #4
        I don't think size has much to do with it. There are plenty of corrupt small town politicians, business owners, scout masters, clergy, etc. It simply just might make bigger news if, say, Microsoft or the the NYPD had a corruption scandal than if, say, the local PTA in Wishek, North Dakota had someone misappropriating funds. It goes on at all levels.
        Last edited by llkinak; 25 Mar 10, 18:48.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by pirateship1982 View Post
          Any opinions on this? Why is it that big so often means corrupt?
          The US army is pretty big.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by UGLYGUTS View Post
            Best place to hide a leaf is in the forrest (old american indian proverb)
            What he said

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            • #7
              There's a myth about 'small town' America. About it still has idealic principles, never have to lock your door at night, you can let your kids run around without worry, etc.

              Social studies have been done. The small towns are just as crime ridden as their huge metropolitan neighbors 100 miles away. The difference? The population. In a large town the percent of bad guys is the same as the small town, but there are just many more of them. The one advantage a small town does have is that everyone knows who the bad guys are and are careful in dealing with them.

              Thus, huge organizations have the same percent of bad folks as do small ones, there's just more of them, & more temptation with more dollars, etc.
              "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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              • #8
                I think that, unfortunately these days, the traits that make a "strong leader" are very close to the traits you'd see in a sociopath. In fact, I believe studies have been done that show that many top industry leaders exhibit sociopathic behavior. I'm not saying they're sociopaths themselves, but perhaps todays business environments have little room for empathic leaders.

                I also get a little uncomfortable with the "I'm ok, all these big guys are corrupt assholes" smell that tends to invade discussions like this. We are all a part of the problem. If you live a "every man for himself" philosophy in your daily life, you can hardly complain if larger society starts to exhibit the same personality traits.

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                • #9
                  The bigger something is the more chance you get to pass the buck. There is also something to be said for herd mentality that allows people to ignore their conscience because it can't be wrong if everyone else is doing it.
                  Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                  That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by llkinak View Post
                    I don't think size has much to do with it. There are plenty of corrupt small town politicians, business owners, scout masters, clergy, etc.
                    I both agree and disagree. There are corrupt people from all walks of life, but there are, on a percentage scale, more of them in the big leagues. I just thought one reason might be that size brings anonymity.

                    In Centralia a city leader groping a staff member would not only result in a boot to the , it would draw so much public contempt that the leader might have to leave town. Bill Clinton feels no such pressure. If a registered sex offender moves in, the neighborhood watch will be eyeing him with an electron microscope. In a big city they probably wouldn't even notice unless the evening news brought it up. If a business owner mistreats his workers here, the whole town will abandon him. When our factory workers went on strike, non factory workers from town turned up to support them.

                    In any small society integrity counts for more because you can't hide in the crowd. That might be one reason corruption is more pervasive in big systems.
                    A new life awaits you in the off world colonies; the chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pirateship1982 View Post
                      I both agree and disagree. There are corrupt people from all walks of life, but there are, on a percentage scale, more of them in the big leagues. .
                      I'm just not convinced this is accurate. I also live and work in a small town and there are plenty of shady dealings. Then again I don't have any figures to back up my hypoththesis, it's just an impression at this point. My rationale is based on my experiences and that people are still people no matter what size organization they belong to. There's a given ammount of "corrupt" out there and it's as likely to be found, per capita at any rate, in a small orgainzation as it is in a large one.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by trailboss49 View Post
                        There's a myth about 'small town' America. About it still has idealic principles, never have to lock your door at night, you can let your kids run around without worry, etc.
                        It's also a great place to hide your collection of human skulls and murder trophies.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by llkinak View Post
                          I'm just not convinced this is accurate. I also live and work in a small town and there are plenty of shady dealings. Then again I don't have any figures to back up my hypoththesis, it's just an impression at this point. My rationale is based on my experiences and that people are still people no matter what size organization they belong to. There's a given ammount of "corrupt" out there and it's as likely to be found, per capita at any rate, in a small orgainzation as it is in a large one.
                          Plus one has to consider outside conditions too. There is less outright corruption in some societies than others. Compare the United States to a smaller African nation, for example.

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                          • #14
                            The disease is called bureaucracy and no one is safe from it.

                            The moment you need paper pushers just to keep track of the normally routine day to day operations of something, you are infected.
                            Life is change. Built models for decades.
                            Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
                            I didn't for a long time either.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by les Brains View Post
                              The disease is called bureaucracy and no one is safe from it.

                              The moment you need paper pushers just to keep track of the normally routine day to day operations of something, you are infected.
                              Bureacracy is the saviro of mankind, it gives us democracy.
                              Wisdom is personal

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