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  • Brain dead or blind Somali pirates

    "Experts say piracy will continue to be a problem until an effective government is established on Somalia's lawless shores"

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100317/ap_on_re_af/piracy

    Somehow that comment seems unwarranted

    "Troops aboard the Dutch warship HNLMS Tromp fired warning shots Wednesday off the coast of East Africa as suspected Somali pirates in two small skiffs raced toward their warship, the EU Naval Force said.

    After the pirates realized they had made what spokesman Cmdr. John Harbour called a "rather silly mistake," they turned around and fled. EU Naval Force personnel tracked down the two skiffs and a third suspected mothership, finding ammunition and rocket-propelled grenades on board, said Harbour, a spokesman for the EU Naval Force.

    The two skiffs were destroyed and the pirates were set free on the mothership after it had been cleared of weapons."

    ""This morning's attack may show a lack of sophistication in the pirate's selection of targets"

    Err no, I think it shows that some pirates are friggin morons.

    "but it should be a warning to the merchant community that the pirates will try to attack any vessel on the high seas,"

    Wouldn't be a problem if the warships clearly in the area, just fired a few rounds off and KILLED the damn vermin. What, are the Dutch unable to replace the ordnance?

    "The EU Naval Force has disrupted 11 pirate attack groups off the coast of East Africa over the last two weeks as part of a more offensive mindset to stop pirate attacks, Harbour said."

    Do YOU want them 'disrupted'? I know I want them DEAD.

    "Experts say piracy will continue to be a problem until an effective government is established on Somalia's lawless shores."

    Or until the pirates discover that armed naval warships shoot to kill.
    What's the point of having warships present, if they are not used as a deterrent? And nothing says deterrent like modern naval weapons fire eh.
    Life is change. Built models for decades.
    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
    I didn't for a long time either.

  • #2
    I'm dissapointed that 'warning shots' were fired. They should have been like Old Hickory and held their fire until they could see the red in their eyes before commencing firing.
    "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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    • #3
      Stupid thing is we'll propably let these 'shoppers'go free again like in a previous incident Dutch navy captured a boatload full of Somali 'shoppers'...
      Doesnt make much sense really :-)
      These pirates arent bothered by being captured at all as most see our prison system as luxury hotels anyway ...
      Last edited by Heinrich; 19 Mar 10, 12:03.
      ' Because it has Electrolytes ! '

      regards:
      Henk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by les Brains View Post
        "Experts say piracy will continue to be a problem until an effective government is established on Somalia's lawless shores"

        http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100317/ap_on_re_af/piracy

        Somehow that comment seems unwarranted

        "Troops aboard the Dutch warship HNLMS Tromp fired warning shots Wednesday off the coast of East Africa as suspected Somali pirates in two small skiffs raced toward their warship, the EU Naval Force said.

        After the pirates realized they had made what spokesman Cmdr. John Harbour called a "rather silly mistake," they turned around and fled. EU Naval Force personnel tracked down the two skiffs and a third suspected mothership, finding ammunition and rocket-propelled grenades on board, said Harbour, a spokesman for the EU Naval Force.

        The two skiffs were destroyed and the pirates were set free on the mothership after it had been cleared of weapons."

        ""This morning's attack may show a lack of sophistication in the pirate's selection of targets"

        Err no, I think it shows that some pirates are friggin morons.

        "but it should be a warning to the merchant community that the pirates will try to attack any vessel on the high seas,"

        Wouldn't be a problem if the warships clearly in the area, just fired a few rounds off and KILLED the damn vermin. What, are the Dutch unable to replace the ordnance?

        "The EU Naval Force has disrupted 11 pirate attack groups off the coast of East Africa over the last two weeks as part of a more offensive mindset to stop pirate attacks, Harbour said."

        Do YOU want them 'disrupted'? I know I want them DEAD.

        "Experts say piracy will continue to be a problem until an effective government is established on Somalia's lawless shores."

        Or until the pirates discover that armed naval warships shoot to kill.
        What's the point of having warships present, if they are not used as a deterrent? And nothing says deterrent like modern naval weapons fire eh.
        "Set them free on their mother ship"? Should have clapped them in irons, sunk the mother ship as well and delivered the pirates directly to a prison camp.

        I never realized that the Dutch were such wuss's.

        Comment


        • #5
          Were not wuzz ..but do you expect us to feed and house them several years as 'punishment' here?? No thanks ..
          Best would have been a small error in the control system of the ship and accidently run 'em all over but that sadly didnt happen .

          Its more a NATO problem I think ..France has got ships there too but nothing is arranged what to do with these shoppers as they call themselves when theyre actually captured ..so as a reward we get to keep the shoppers ..hmm
          Our navy is there not on a mission , officially its just doing exercises and sideways offering some form of protection to all international ships.
          Remind you that most countries are not even bothered about helping out with that ..The article is wrong in stating there's an EU force there..its simply not true as these are just a handfull of ships not related and all from different countries sent individually ..

          I guess your Navy's having the same troubles there ...politics saying No .
          Just guarding shipping routes ..but officially nothing more .

          (Doubt btw if in case of a kidnapping of a Dutch citizen like with the US captain earlier it would end in releasing them .. theres pretty capable snipes aboard too for stronger eh.. argumentation if needed or being fired upon )

          Letting them go sounds ridiculous , agreed ..but what options do you have as a small country ?
          Clamped in irons and delivered to a prison camp ? Sounds good ..but erm,
          wich camp if may ask ? A camp in Somalia ?
          There'll be space in Guantanamo soon , if your interested in a bunch of 'Somi' pirates give us a ring next time ...
          Last edited by Heinrich; 19 Mar 10, 14:12.
          ' Because it has Electrolytes ! '

          regards:
          Henk

          Comment


          • #6
            It doesn't always pay off to "start" some full scale war just to test them new weapons and navy vessels. As such we need to be gentle to them - otherwise we run out of live target practice opportunities.

            I firmly believe in this , since I couldn't follow up otherwise on the issue that a buch of "commodity shoppers" would be free to hassle a world trading route -right?

            So let's not scare them away

            Regards
            Kruska
            Last edited by Kruska; 19 Mar 10, 15:49.

            Comment


            • #7
              What they should have done was sink the mother ship and let them loose on the skiffs.Of course,the skiffs would have been drained of all fuel,and any oars removed..The link doesn't specify how far off the coast the pirates were.But I still like the idea of doing that.That way when the lefties out there cry about the pirates rights,we could say we disarmed them and let them go.
              ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

              BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

              BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                What they should have done was sink the mother ship and let them loose on the skiffs.Of course,the skiffs would have been drained of all fuel,and any oars removed..The link doesn't specify how far off the coast the pirates were.But I still like the idea of doing that.That way when the lefties out there cry about the pirates rights,we could say we disarmed them and let them go.
                It is not the right but the trade, and keep low intensity war level. We have other things to do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by grosnain View Post
                  It is not the right but the trade, and keep low intensity war level. We have other things to do.
                  I don't think that we need to intensify,at least at this point,our numbers.We just need to use the assets on hand in a more "decisive" manner.
                  ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                  BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                  BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hello Gixxer86g,

                    the issue we are involved is termed "de-escalation" and not "escalation".

                    Simple reason being that it is as usuall, economic and cultural issues that promote piracy. Yes the US could bomb Somalia to s#it, the European navy's could eliminate all pirates.
                    And once we retreat with our military might - more hatred will be left behind by those considered to be the loosers of global economics towards the rich and thus imperialistic and dominating/exploiting countries (if Muslims are involved we need to add "infidels" as well).

                    The piracy issue in its core is purely a situation that derives or finds its roots in cultural and poverty related arguments.

                    Yes I agree, shoot the crap out of them (who's willing to go there and get his soldiers killed?) but at the same time or upon taking over their country establish the basis for educational grounds and economical survival of the survivors.

                    Thanks to our politicians this will not happen in the near future - so till then use them as live practise objects/targets, but for heavens sake do not escalate matters.

                    Regards
                    Kruska

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      To be decisive you need to surge on the sea and on the coast. Then you need to go inside the land.
                      Then you need to watch out Yemen. Then you need to look at every fisher, small boats and one day you've gat a Kamikase succes.

                      "Firing at will " without a long planed surge, intelligence and cooperation, training, is just an easy "kill'em all, drop the bombs" self entertainement.
                      At the end you've gat another hot spot.
                      Afghanistan show us that if you don't start and pursuit at full scales and for long time, it's better to keep the aera coldest as it can be.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by grosnain View Post
                        .........Afghanistan show us that if you don't start and pursuit at full scales and for long time, it's better to keep the aera coldest as it can be.
                        Hello grosnain,

                        right on target

                        Regards
                        Kruska

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I really don't think that it will come to an Afghanistan type situation as far as the Somali pirates are concerned.I don't feel that Somalia as a whole needs to be pacified to contain the piracy.I feel that what is necessary is to make it far to expensive in terms of lives and materials for the pirates to continue.First of all,there must be no more ransoms paid.Unfortunately,that will lead to some crewmen being murdered by the pirates,but it must be done.Then,ALL pirates must be eliminated when encountered and both the mother ships and skiffs must be destroyed.
                          ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                          BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                          BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There have been suggestions of sending armed (military)crews on our commercial merchant ships instead of sending some navy ships ..but its rejected on constitutional limitations ..might have been a better solution and would have created a lot of extra jobs for (ex?) service personnel too without the risk of getting directly involved with the Somali gouvernment .
                            (same plan like the airmarshalls nowadays on planes but adapted for ships .Considering the average pirates armament that must be be doable .)
                            Besides Somali waters its getting a real problem in south east asian and Indonesian waters also.
                            To guard that route by patrolling there with naval vessels will be be touchy political too.
                            ' Because it has Electrolytes ! '

                            regards:
                            Henk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                              I really don't think that it will come to an Afghanistan type situation as far as the Somali pirates are concerned.I don't feel that Somalia as a whole needs to be pacified to contain the piracy.I feel that what is necessary is to make it far to expensive in terms of lives and materials for the pirates to continue.First of all,there must be no more ransoms paid.Unfortunately,that will lead to some crewmen being murdered by the pirates,but it must be done.Then,ALL pirates must be eliminated when encountered and both the mother ships and skiffs must be destroyed.
                              Quite right. Piracy is an economic crime, and always has been.

                              It therefore requires an economic solution. At the moment, the cost benefit calculation is in favour of piracy, because there is a strong incentive and very slight disincentive.

                              The latter is easily corrected.

                              The former could also be corrected. Never, ever pay off a pirate ransom. I know its really tough on the first couple of sets of captives, but it will work in the long run.

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