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How Green is Green?

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  • Trailboss49
    replied
    I hate 'wetermelons' (green on the outside & red on the inside) and 'tree huggers'. They have no idea what the real world is and how it operates. I've spent 35+ years of professional job in getting ag folks to do things wiser and more efficiently. I live in a well insulated trailer. I drive a car that gets 40MPG and going to buy a Harley that gets 50MPG. But, I also throw my plastics away with my paper and don't worry about it. Let me clue you, there's plenty of 3rd world countries who pollute out the ying yang and until they stop I'm not in the least bit worried about global warming.

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  • Admiral
    replied
    Originally posted by MM
    Being green is great for the companies involved, but does little or nothing for you as an individual.
    Not entirely, MM... when you reduce your energy bills by things that you do in/with your own home, that is a portion of green that very much benefits you directly by the savings it yields you - and when done correctly, it pays for itself in short term. Of course I'm talking about all the things you can do personally that lower your own energy bills. Since buying me home - built in 79' - I have lowered my energy bills by just over 45% (adjusted for inflation, even) and the pay off for the assorted investments in far more efficient heating/cooling, insulation enhancement, lighting, even better windows has/will pay themselves off from said savings in roughly 6 years. THAT is good! Just changing out your lighting to far more efficient products will show you a savings in your wallet & in short order.

    But in general terms, much/most of the much more global green movement is really almost a last bastion of the 'redistribution of wealth' socialism/marxism that exists on a global scale. In their terms, I would agree to a varying & great many extents.


    Last edited by Admiral; 26 Feb 10, 06:33.

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  • Listy
    replied
    Some of you may not have seen the Ethical man experiment carried out by Newsnight last year.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/4736228.stm

    Some more details, including a Panorama episode on the experiment here.

    Basically one of their reporters did everything to live a green life for a year in an effort to reduce his impact on the environment. He and his family recorded all of it too.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Being green is great for the companies involved, but does little or nothing for you as an individual.

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  • SRV Ron
    replied
    The spiral bulbs, shop carefully to get the good ones in natural light, use 1/3 of the energy of the filament ones. Better yet, once the price comes down are the high intensity LED ones. 9 watts vs 23 on the spiral or 100 on the filament ones, and no generated heat. Major energy cost savings here.

    Switched some time ago from expensive oil to high efficient gas. Instead of a metal asbestos chimney for the oil furnace, the gas furnace only needs a plastic pipe for a chimney.

    I also heat with free wood using an airtight stove. Operating it at the right temperature keeps the chimney clean of creosote ald allows any soot to fall down to the clean out cap.

    Switched from a 175 watt outdoor mercury light to a 65 watt florescent one. Lights up right away without the harsh off color light of the mercury one.

    Collect and use rain water for the garden and non potable water use. cuts way down on the water and matching 1.5 times the cost sewer bill.

    When the weather permits, alternative transport for shopping.


    The trailer will haul 100 pounds of stuff easily. The seat basket a cloth grocery bag or equivalent.

    This is my Garage Sale transport. Easy to park and shop. A set of bike locks are used for shopping where I can lock up at a sign post near the front door.
    Last edited by SRV Ron; 13 Jul 17, 05:51.

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  • Jose50
    replied
    Ireland is supposed to have 40 shades of green. I feel that newer energy technologies should be exploited such as wind/solar/tidal/geothermic power to run electric dynamos..(even [choke!] nuclear {nucular} power plants. At least if some of the electric that we use is generated by clean (replaceable) means it would cut down on the amount of fossil-based pollutants that we put into the atmosphere.

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    We should our part whenever possible without having to become homeless or bankrupt.
    That's the goal of the Green Movement.

    So we don't become homeless. We only have this one rock and we need to take better care of it.

    I'm not any greener than others in the neighborhood. Re cycle of items, from glass and plastic, paper and biodegradable garbage are common standards for all. Most people still bring their own bags/baskets when shopping and sidewalks are every where. Bike paths forum nets in cities and towns .

    The contradiction is that burning of wood and coal in fireplaces is still allowed. Gardner's still burn thier tree trimmings.

    Buying bio? Not my idea of green. Just marketing and scare tactics.

    My vote went with Good, but it does depend on what shade of green.

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  • Skoblin
    replied
    Originally posted by Duncan
    Green can definitely be good. But there are times when it is misguided. My own personal example... Federal building codes in Canada mandated sealed envelopes around buildings to keep them insulated and energy efficient. This works great in the cold dry climates in the prairies. However, a building code designed to be green in Winterpeg is not so good for warm and wet Vancouver where changes to preasure in the envelope and capillary action sucks in water, and where a building can freeze and thaw daily. Our 32 million dollar building now requires 14 million dollars in repairs due to water ingress. And the non-biodegradeable envelope of our building will be added to a landfill. This is a common BC problem, in part caused by federal building codes trying to go green in ways that were not appropriate to the area. One code does not fit all.
    We have had the same problem in Victoria, Duncan. Numerous instances of remediation to deal with mold and rot under the stucco. In fact, it reached the point that re-sales of condominiums fell off dramatically and almost no one would touch them if they were built between a certain set number of years. Sellers would have to subtract the potential share cost of remediation from the value of the condo, almost certainly guaranteeing a capital loss. However, since the actual cost of remediation generally exceeds the estimates provided by contractors almost no one would touch them, even with the drop in price. Compounding the problem is that a lot of the original contractors would declare "bankruptcy" leaving no recourse for litigation.

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  • Salinator
    replied
    The problem is that sometimes the greenies disregard economic realities.

    We should our part whenever possible without having to become homeless or bankrupt.

    Living and working where I do, I can tell endless stories of complete foolishness that has made us all more miserable without any real gain for the betterment of the environment.

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  • Admiral
    replied
    That stuff is good for Malls & store fronts, seldom a place where one lives - Styrofoam skin, cut, routed, grooved, filed, built up or shaped to created a desired texture/appearance, with a very thin layer (2 or 3 if you're lucky) of a colored sort of 'concrete' literally scratched on. And if that isn't done very efficiently, there is no way to seal out water ingress. It's possible to get such a sealed surface, but seldom is it ever even anything near perfect. The 1st time water gets in for any time, then begins the rot, separation, weight increase, freeze/thaw process, making everything else progressively worse over time.

    As you know, I wish you all the best of luck & resolution, my friend,

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  • Admiral
    replied
    Your case is a prime example of a lack of regional/local realities considered when the engineering for the design of the envelope & HVAC occurred.

    You are right that building codes are not as universal to any given regional environ as they are so universally applied & enforced by municipalities...

    I'd be interested to what specific code it was designed to, mate?

    Likely one of the more recent IBCs, I'm guessin.

    At the very least, your situation could have been avoided by virtue of an HVAC system that maintained a positive interior pressure - even as little as a half pound greater interior pressure would have made a difference with an envelope that is sealed to such an extent that you likely had, though with a tenants ability to leave windows & exterior doors open, a bit more would be required. Granted, the HVAC system may well have been a bit more pricey, but the current state you now must live with is manifoldly greater in the final cost.


    Last edited by Admiral; 25 Feb 10, 00:32.

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  • Admiral
    replied
    There is Tree Huggin Green, though noble in intent, that really ain't gonna do a hell of alot for any given individual over their lifetime - much of that kind of Green ends up costing a hell of alot for very little gained by mandate or pier pressure - mostly legislative mandate...

    Then there are Green Efficiencies (Personal Energy Savings/Reductions that impact directly ones own wallet directly) by virtue of material means & manners that serve you personally... especially when the additional investment in energy efficiencies, building technologies & materials actually return on the additional investment within less than a decade & continue to return savings over more traditional/typical living or business spaces for the life of the structures/homes.

    Even though much of what is most often called 'Green' today can do more damage to a society than good... personally building, developing & living as energy/thermal efficient as one is able can easily pay back the additional cost of making it possible over a short time & then the savings becomes quite a good thing over the long run.

    Beware the junk science out there & always remember that thinking in global terms is not always a bad thing, but intelligently acting locally - personally, in regard to the material capability/capacity/efficiency of your home or business - is almost always a good thing!


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  • Jose50
    replied
    ...as Kermit the Frog said.."It ain't easy being green..."

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  • Nick the Noodle
    started a poll How Green is Green?

    How Green is Green?

    17
    Being Green is good.
    29.41%
    5
    Being Green could be good.
    52.94%
    9
    Being Green is actually bad.
    17.65%
    3
    I do my bit .

    I walk rather than drive to the shops when I can carry the stuff home.

    I recycle everything they let me - plastics, metal, paper, cardboard etc.

    I purchased a bin to do my own compost.

    I try to buy organic, freerange, green whatever. Whether food, cleaning products or even toilet paper?

    I wonder though? Does it really help?

    On the global side if the Gore bunch are correct then it won't matter what I do because big business is destroying the planet, and regardless of what I do we are doomed. If the skeptics are right I still don't need to do anything because I have nothing to worry about.

    So is being green really being green? If I buy an organic, free range, fair trade carrot from a supermarket am I actually being green?
    Last edited by Nick the Noodle; 24 Feb 10, 17:57.

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