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Osama...wasn't it all about getting him ?

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  • Osama...wasn't it all about getting him ?

    I remain, sir, Haggard of the Hindu Kush

    Never mind the needless deaths, we've only succeeded in making bin Laden a shadow of his former self

    War on Terrorism: Observer special
    War in Afghanistan: Observer special

    Terry Jones
    The Observer

    Osama bin Laden is looking 'haggard'. A videotape broadcast on al-Jazeera TV showed the Most Wanted Man in the Known World looking haggard. And in case we didn't notice how haggard he was looking, the Western media have been pounding us with the word ever since the pictures were released.
    So I would like to congratulate George Bush and Tony Blair on the first concrete evidence that their 'War on Terrorism' is finally achieving some of its policy objectives.

    Of course, they've done terribly well in bringing chaos to Afghanistan, but I don't remember that as being one of the policy objectives. When those planes smashed into the World Trade Centre with the loss of 2,500 innocent lives, I don't think anybody's first reaction was: 'Well, the sooner we get the mujahideen and the warlords to take over Kabul the better!' No, as I remember, President Bush laid out the policy objectives of his 'War on Terrorism' in measured terms: 'We must catch the evil perpetrators of this cowardly act and bring them to justice.'

    Bringing to justice the people who actually perpetrated the crime was out of the question since they were already dead. They'd killed themselves in a typically cowardly fashion. So, as I remember it, President Bush pretty quickly said he would get whoever egged them on to do it and then he would make them pay for it.

    Well, many months later, who has paid for it? US taxpayers have stumped up billions of dollars. They've paid for it. So have the British taxpayers, for some reason which hasn't yet been explained to us. Uncounted thousands of innocent Afghan citizens have paid for it too - with their lives. I say 'uncounted' because nobody in the West seems to have been particularly interested in counting them. It's pretty certain more innocent people have died and are still dying in the bombing of Afghanistan than on 11 September, but the New York Times doesn't run daily biographies of them so they don't count.

    Oh, I nearly forgot - we've all paid a considerable amount in terms of those precious civil liberties and freedoms that make our way of life in the Free World so much better than everyone else's. Bit of a conundrum that.

    We are all also paying a huge price, all the time, every day, in terms of our daily anxiety quota. We daren't fly in planes or, if we do, we do so in fear and dread. We are constantly fearful of some nameless retribution being visited on us. And it's no good Mr Blair saying this is the terrorists' fault. Of course it is, but then if we hadn't joined the Americans in bombing Afghanistan we wouldn't all be so scared.

    If the objectives of the 'War on Terrorism' were to catch the perpetrators of the 11 September attacks, bring them to justice and make the world a safer place, so far the score - on all three objectives - has been nil. We're all jumping around scared shitless that something similar is going to happen at any moment. No perpetrators have been caught; no perpetrators have been brought to justice.

    Mark you, this last is not really surprising. Just think: if the police were setting out to catch a particularly clever and evil murderer, would they go around with loud-hailers announcing where they were going to look for him, pinpoint the areas they intended to search and give him a count of 100 to get away? That's what you do if you're playing hide and seek, not if you want to catch a criminal. I rather imagine the police would have gone to work covertly and tried to find out where he was without his even knowing they were looking for him. But I realise that's not a very American way of going about things.

    However, finally the 'War on Terrorism' is achieving its policy objectives. Osama bin Laden is looking haggard. We may not have caught him or brought him to justice but, at the cost of thousands of innocent Afghan lives, billions of dollars of US citizens' money and the civil liberties of the Free World, we have got him looking haggard.

    It's a sensational and ground-breaking moment that justifies all the news coverage it's been getting. If Osama bin Laden is looking haggard, that means he's scared - or tired or eaten something that disagrees with him - but at least it means he's not enjoying himself as he was in his previous video.

    This is a considerable triumph for the US forces, for the brave bomber pilots who release their bombs from such considerable and dangerous heights above the ground, and for Tony Blair, who has so fearlessly led his entire nation into the position of being terrorist targets for no good reason that any of us can think of.

    So keep up the good work, President Bush and Prime Minister Blair, let's see if we can continue in this vein and perhaps - at the cost of only another few billion dollars, a lot more innocent lives, many more civil rights, and the stability of the Middle East, Iraq, and perhaps a Third World War, we might even be able to make Osama bin Laden frown.

  • #2
    When I listened to Bush's State of the Union speech he mentioned the War on Terror and the fact that we were winning that war. Hhhmmm interesting so if this is winning.....

    Al-Qaida blamed after 18 killed in bus bombing. A bomb has destroyed a bridge outside Kandahar, killing 18 people on a bus.
    No-one has yet taken responsibility, but Taliban and al-Qaida fugitives are being blamed by police.

    The United Nations has issued a trenchant condemnation of all the nations and agencies involved in Afghanistan for failing to curb warlords and clamp down on arbitrary executions. America enlisted the alliance in the war against the Taliban and its leaders now dominate the Kabul government. Inspectors detail how civilians continue to be killed, jailed, tortured and intimidated with impunity by warlords. "There is a climate of fear and those who leak information on violations of human rights are threatened." The International Crisis Group, which issued its report this week, demanded that President Karzai remove from office Fazl Hadi Shinwari, the chief justice of the supreme court. He has banned cable television and has given judgments against the full participation of women in social and political life.



    .....I sure would hate to see losing.




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    • #3
      Originally posted by Marko
      When I listened to Bush's State of the Union speech he mentioned the War on Terror and the fact that we were winning that war. Hhhmmm interesting so if this is winning.....

      Al-Qaida blamed after 18 killed in bus bombing. A bomb has destroyed a bridge outside Kandahar, killing 18 people on a bus.
      No-one has yet taken responsibility, but Taliban and al-Qaida fugitives are being blamed by police.

      The United Nations has issued a trenchant condemnation of all the nations and agencies involved in Afghanistan for failing to curb warlords and clamp down on arbitrary executions. America enlisted the alliance in the war against the Taliban and its leaders now dominate the Kabul government. Inspectors detail how civilians continue to be killed, jailed, tortured and intimidated with impunity by warlords. "There is a climate of fear and those who leak information on violations of human rights are threatened." The International Crisis Group, which issued its report this week, demanded that President Karzai remove from office Fazl Hadi Shinwari, the chief justice of the supreme court. He has banned cable television and has given judgments against the full participation of women in social and political life.



      .....I sure would hate to see losing.




      Just close your eyes...dream...dream...Pretend your soul-mate "Taco-Willy" Clinton is still the U.S. President.....see? now you're winning!
      "100% of the successful terrorist attacks on commercial airlines for the past 20 years, have been committed by Arabs. When there is a 100% chance, it ceases to be a profile. It's then called a 'description of the suspect'"
      --Ann Coulter

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      • #4
        It took the Israelis thirteen years to track down all the terrorists responsible for the planning and execution of the Olympic attack at Munich. We always knew it would take years to catch OBL. Bush made that clear in a number of statements. The primary objective in Afghanistan, was to deny it as a safe haven for Al-Qaeda.

        The Allies can't solve all of Afghanistan's problems. We made it clear to all involved, the US would withdraw should the tribal and factional leaders not make a meaniful and consistent effort to rebuild their nation. If things get worse, we should honor this warning. It's ultimately up to the peple of Afghanistan, not the US as to where their nation will go.

        Many of the problems you discussed were present long before the US. Most factions unified to defeat their common foe. Now they are turning on each other. It was a loose-loose situation. I've never had much hope for Afghanistan, and was against the nation-building operation. However, I understand why we had to commit to this part of our operation and accept it.

        This is anti/counterterrorism Marko. You will not see much of what is going on. I don't care about victory or defeat. We'll never eliminate terrorism. It's been around since war began. It will be here long after we're gone. Our objective should be to remain vigilant and not take our security for granted, as we once did.
        "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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        • #5
          Re: Osama...wasn't it all about getting him ?

          Originally posted by Marko
          I remain, sir, Haggard of the Hindu Kush

          Never mind the needless deaths, we've only succeeded in making bin Laden a shadow of his former self

          War on Terrorism: Observer special
          War in Afghanistan: Observer special

          Terry Jones
          The Observer



          Of course, they've done terribly well in bringing chaos to Afghanistan, but I don't remember that as being one of the policy objectives.
          How can you bring CHAOS to a country that was already in it?

          As for the rest of the article it seems to be filled with half-truths and distortions.Not bringing justice to anyone yet?Theres a few top dogs either pow-wowing with Allah or being held by "friendly" countries.My own personal feelings on this issue are that if Osama was/is dead and the goverment announced it,then these same people would be screaming "the war is over..why carry it on now!".This is not about only one man,there are many out there who even after he is gone need to face some sort of justice

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          • #6
            Disagree totally. There is an imense bitter taste in George Bush's mouth, he wanted Osama. Al Qaeda will always exist and will never, never be short of recruits willing to die for their cause. Afghanistan may have been in chaos - ever heard of the phrase out of chaos comes order. US personnel are actually amazed how the Taliban kept the countries in-feuding down to a minimum. In two years when there are no US troops there it will just be the same old Afghanistan, in fact its getting that way now. Back to my first point Bush wants Osama. Otherwise why no incursions into Somalia (again!) or Yemen or Pakistan ? To route out Al Qaeda or how about Chechnya ?

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            • #7
              Otherwise why no incursions into Somalia (again!) or Yemen or Pakistan ? To route out Al Qaeda or how about Chechnya ?

              The US have made incursions into Pakistan. We don't need to invade because the local government is cooperating (somewhat).

              CJTF-Horn Of Africa is now operational and are actively engaged in hunting down terrorists in both Somalia and Yemen. Al-Qaeda though is not the only target. There are concerns about Somalia's AIAI, and Egypt's Islami Jihad. This region is a serious hot spot, where our troops can get into alot of trouble. Ethiopia, and factions in Somalia have already tried to use the war on terrorism to benefit their own causes. This is likely to continue. I am very concerned about CJTF HOA operations in this region. It has disaster written all over it.

              Chechnya can be handled by the Russians. You don't want the US in that conflict. We can't attack Al-Qaeda without intervening on side or the other. The Russians have the authority, and willingness. Bush has gone silent about Russia and Chechnya.

              I do feel the US is focusing too much on Al-Qaeda. There are other terrorist organizations out there that are just as dangerous. These include domestic terrorists residing in the US. Radicals at home could pose a greater threat than foriegn terrorists. I wish people would focus more on that. Al-Qaeda is not terrorism. It's just a part of it.

              Abdullah Mohammad Fazul is a greater threat than Bin Laden right now. Fazul is one of the most active terrorist, and has the skill and ability to mount major attacks against US interest in Africa and the Middle East. Bin Laden is too hot to be effective. Saying high to the man could get you an unpleasant visit from commandos. So more than likely, he's been reduced to nothing more than a figure head.
              "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

              Comment


              • #8
                It takes months and years of training and planning for any terrorist group to pull off any kind of worthwhile attack.While they are running around trying to stay one step ahead of the "Law" they do not have the same resources to do either of these things.There are other acts that still need to be paid for such as Kenya and the Cole.By the gavel or by the gun there are still quite a few after Osama that still need justice brought upon their heads.

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                • #9
                  http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...ent%2Dopinions

                  theres an interesting little piece there co-authored by someone who was involved in the negotitations between Sudan and the US concerning Osama being handed over a few years back.

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                  • #10
                    I finally figured out how to post a link Now nothing can stop me.Where is that jar of pickles i've been working on the last couple months.....MUWHAHAHA

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                    • #11
                      The truth is the US still want Osama sooooooo badly it hurts. He is the face of Al Qaeda, dangerous or not they want him. Unfortunately the greatest most powerful nation in the world can't find him. Maybe one day they will stumble upon him.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Marko
                        The truth is the US still want Osama sooooooo badly it hurts. He is the face of Al Qaeda, dangerous or not they want him. Unfortunately the greatest most powerful nation in the world can't find him. Maybe one day they will stumble upon him.
                        There's no maybe's about it, pal. What are going to to complain about then?
                        "100% of the successful terrorist attacks on commercial airlines for the past 20 years, have been committed by Arabs. When there is a 100% chance, it ceases to be a profile. It's then called a 'description of the suspect'"
                        --Ann Coulter

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