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  • Should We Wipe Out Islam?

    During a recent discussion about terrorism with my fellow Marines one of my friends who is muslim and from Pakistan posed this question to us. He said the following.

    "Let me ask you guys a question. I'll use Italy as a example. Now Italy is over 90% catholic if Russia or who ever invaded Italy would catholics from all over the world flock to Italy to fight for it. No. But if any other non Islamic culture invades a islamic nation then muslims from all over the world do flock to fight for it even if thier ideals are at odds with each other. The islamic religion is like no other in the world it transcends national boundaries. The only way the majority of terrorism will ever be stopped is if we destory every last muslim on the face of the earth."

    Now we were drunk as hell...sitting there after hearing this we didn't speak for about 5 seconds and our collective jaws hit the floor we couldn't believe he said that. What do you guys think

    Semper Fi

  • #2
    WTF?!!!

    Was he really serious?

    It's like he's saying, or admitting, that the majority of muslims cannot think for themselves.

    Alot of them need some major deprogramming man!
    "To know the weapons the enemy has is already to beat them!"

    http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-photo-vf213-01l.jpg

    Comment


    • #3
      Many people do not understand the difference between the muslim world and the arab world.

      There are many muslims in the world. Radical Islam, on the other hand, is more of an arab concept. Yes, radical Islam has infected Indonesia, Pakistan, and Iran (Iran is not an arab country), but in these cases, the infection comes from arab countries.

      Islam is not the problem. Radical Islam, such as Wahhabism, is the problem. I would not toss out Christianity because of the antics of some southern US based fundamentalist, neither should I condemn Islam for the actions of a corrupt sect.

      Comment


      • #4
        When the Q'uran teaches peace and alms giving, I don't think you can assume that all Muslims will go and fight to the death against non-muslims. This "Holy War" stuff, is like the Crusades. It was started by a bunch of fanatics who base an interpetation of an entire book off of one or two sentences. A good number, if not MOST Muslims are good people who deserve to be respected. I'd only want the same if you were talking to me about killing abortion doctors.....I detest abortion and consider it murder, but I'm not about to go blow up a planned parenthood clinic. Don't assume because of a few crazies running around out there that I'm nuts like them.
        BTW: If there was any wondering, I'm Roman Catholic
        Pvt. Bob Mana,
        Co. B, 3rd Maryland Vol. Infantry, 1st Brigade, 1st Division, 12th Corps, Union Army of the Potomac

        For the Union

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PvtManaCoB3MD
          When the Q'uran teaches peace and alms giving, I don't think you can assume that all Muslims will go and fight to the death against non-muslims. This "Holy War" stuff, is like the Crusades. It was started by a bunch of fanatics who base an interpetation of an entire book off of one or two sentences. A good number, if not MOST Muslims are good people who deserve to be respected. I'd only want the same if you were talking to me about killing abortion doctors.....I detest abortion and consider it murder, but I'm not about to go blow up a planned parenthood clinic. Don't assume because of a few crazies running around out there that I'm nuts like them.
          BTW: If there was any wondering, I'm Roman Catholic
          According to the book I'm reading (Onward Muslim Soldiers), Islam teaches that Muslims should go to "unbelievers" and offer 1) conversion to Islam; 2) payment of a tax (jizya) and living as a second-class (at best) citizen, this may be altered by the local leader at any time; or 3) face immediate war. If war is waged, at the conclusion, the commander may do as he wishes with the surviviors, including summary execution. Any woman may be taken by any Muslim, for slavery or other purposes. All children will be forcibly converted to Islam. Additionally, all those who fought are encouraged to take as much booty as one camel may carry. All surviviors not killed must act with deference to all Muslims; may not make criminal complaints against a Muslim; may not insult a Muslim, nor complain if insulted by a Muslim; churches, if permitted, may not be taller than any mosque, nor may any non-Muslim house be taller than any Muslim house. This continue in a similar vein. Similarly, Muslims immigrating to Europe and America have indicated their intent to use our rights of free expression to call for militant action by Muslims in any country, also using the reluctance of any nation to take repressive action against such incitement to violence. One spoke to the intent that they will win, because the nations cannot silence them.

          This is the "peaceful" and "tolerant" religion of Islam.
          Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
          (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Should We Wipe Out Islam?

            Originally posted by Marines
            During a recent discussion about terrorism with my fellow Marines one of my friends who is muslim and from Pakistan posed this question to us. He said the following.

            "Let me ask you guys a question. I'll use Italy as a example. Now Italy is over 90% catholic if Russia or who ever invaded Italy would catholics from all over the world flock to Italy to fight for it. No. But if any other non Islamic culture invades a islamic nation then muslims from all over the world do flock to fight for it even if thier ideals are at odds with each other. The islamic religion is like no other in the world it transcends national boundaries. The only way the majority of terrorism will ever be stopped is if we destory every last muslim on the face of the earth."

            Now we were drunk as hell...sitting there after hearing this we didn't speak for about 5 seconds and our collective jaws hit the floor we couldn't believe he said that. What do you guys think

            Semper Fi
            A drunk Muslim? I thought one of the tenets of Islam was no alcohol.
            Lance W.

            Peace through superior firepower.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would agree that there are various sects within Islam, some more militant than others. There are certainly followers who preach peace and love, but I know of no other religion who founder preaches the concept of "holy war". The Crusades are cited as a Christian equivalent of jihad. The idea of the Crusades came over 1000 years after Jesus laid down the foundations of Christianity. The Papacy was the driving force that sent western knights to reclaim the "holy land", mainly as an excuse to keep the countries of western Europe from fighting amonst themselves, plus a little loot never hurts.......


              BTW I'm a Disciple of Christ (Liberal Protestant)
              Lance W.

              Peace through superior firepower.

              Comment


              • #8
                Geez, Hogdriver. Know thine enemy, eh?




                Anyone stating that 'every last muslim must be wiped off the face of the earth' in order to solve current problems is, well, a bit too far to the right for my tastes.:crazy:

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                • #9
                  I like the fact there are so many muslims speaking out against all the islamic fanaticism in the world.
                  "War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want."
                  General William "Uncle Billy" Sherman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hogdriver,
                    I do not doubt your source, although the Q'uran would be a bit more reliable, as it is the first Muslim text......and as far as Muslims offering conversion and such, I have no doubt that it means in a Muslim ruled and Islamic law based nation. I don't think Muslims residing in the US or any other non-Islamic lawed (is lawed a word?) nation would do that.
                    Pvt. Bob Mana,
                    Co. B, 3rd Maryland Vol. Infantry, 1st Brigade, 1st Division, 12th Corps, Union Army of the Potomac

                    For the Union

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Re: Should We Wipe Out Islam?

                      Originally posted by Lance Williams
                      A drunk Muslim? I thought one of the tenets of Islam was no alcohol.
                      That's true, but it's widely broken in more liberal countries. Breaking the rules is not unique to Islam. It's just like Christians buying porn in the US and Catholics who use birth control, etc.

                      BTW, one of the interesting things in Iraq is the other religions that are here.

                      There are two sizable christian communities: Chaldean Catholics and Assyrians (for example, Tariq Aziz).

                      There were Jews here until they got run out on the Israeli issue.

                      There is a gnostic church called the Mandeans, who follow the teachings of John the Baptist.

                      The christians here run the CD shops and the liquor stores where the Muslims buy the things they're not allowed to have under Islam, but want to do.

                      The bottom line, though, is despite the enthusiastic Marine, we just don't do business that way in the US.
                      Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                      Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                      "Never pet a burning dog."

                      RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 11bgod
                        Geez, Hogdriver. Know thine enemy, eh?
                        Yep. If you don't they'll creep up on you and . . . .




                        Anyone stating that 'every last muslim must be wiped off the face of the earth' in order to solve current problems is, well, a bit too far to the right for my tastes.:crazy:
                        Indeed - no group (well maybe one or two) is all bad. Some are simply more extremist than others. We should no more suggest that the Muslims should be "wiped out" than we should have made the similar demand toward Germany and Japan after World War II.
                        Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
                        (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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                        • #13
                          Y'all might find this site interesting...

                          http://www.danielpipes.org/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Should We Wipe Out Islam?

                            Originally posted by Marines
                            [B...The only way the majority of terrorism will ever be stopped is if we destory every last muslim on the face of the earth." [/B]

                            Semper Fi [/B]
                            Interesting question. When I read this, I read it as a rhetorical statement, not a recommendation to a course of action.

                            Even considering the source, it is a solution that can never be brought about. Religion has never been wiped out from direct repression. Only time and the dwindling of adherents kill a belief.

                            Considering the source of the statement, the magnitude of such a task is greater than if posed by a non-Muslim. No matter what the belief, or perception, the vocal minority has great sway over the uninformed masses. That is not to say the Marine who was quoted is uninformed. However, since 9/11, greater public notice is taken of what is said about the US, and the West, in the Islamic world. I am often astounded by what I have heard quoted from Muslims around the world, when asked about the US, 9/11, and the role of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. The level of misinformation being repeated about the US and Americans is only matched by my ignorance of Islam.

                            I considered myself an educated, fairly well informed, open-minded, and free thinking man. I am capable of making my own decisions, based on the information I have at hand. However, it takes a huge preponderance of data slanted in one direction to make me swing far from the middle of the road. The less data there is, the more convincing I need to believe it at face value.

                            Should we have gone into Afghanistan, I believe yes. Should we have gone into Iraq, I am leaning to the yes side of "I'm not sure". Did Saddam Hussein need to be removed from power, yes. Is Islam at fault for terrorism, no. Should Islam be eradicated because of terrorism, no. Terrorism is a reactionary response to an existing condition. It is usually a last resort effort. Terrorism can never be entirely wiped away.

                            Two things (broadly defined) need to be accomplished to remove terrorism as a tool: Education/information, and removal of the cause. The US, and general Western ways, isn't going any time soon. That leaves education. Steps have been taken by Islamic clerics to spread the word that the current form of Islamic terrorism is not acceptacoble. As reasonable as the argument sounds to us, we are not the intended recipients. The message is not attractive to those who gravitate to radical Islam, or any other radical movement. The message does not address their grievances, perceived or real.

                            Once a message from a recognized, authoritative source is presented that addresses these grievences, or the head and heart are cut out of the terrorist "body", there will be no actual end to terrorism, Islamic or otherwise. One way to deal with terrorism is toalitarianism, which is anathema to the great majority of citizens of the world. Granted, such an environment is likely better able to curb acts of terror, but the pricetag for this type of solution is the limitation, if not actual removal of the freedoms which we hold so dear.

                            We face the greatest test in 200 years of the results of the American Revolution. The rights and freedoms which we fought for and won, at such a high cost, are in jeapordy, in the name of fighting terrorism. We have been presented with knee jerk solutions to the acts of terrorism, not recommendations intended to unerstand and stifle terrorism before it can act. (Sorry for the soapbox. I rarely have the opportunity to express myself in such a forum.)

                            Semper fi!
                            Retreat hell, we just got here. Every Marine, a rifleman.

                            Never let the facts get in the way of the truth.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Re: Should We Wipe Out Islam?

                              Originally posted by Iron Mike USMC
                              (Sorry for the soapbox. I rarely have the opportunity to express myself in such a forum.)

                              Semper fi!
                              Thanks for taking the time to respond! You bring up a good point, and I wonder if anyone has any hard data on this. But you mention that Islamic clerics are preaching that acts of terrorism in the name of Islam is wrong. I've always felt it amazing that a religion could be twisted in such a way - and wondered why no one of import ever seemed to step forward and declare that NO Muslim would EVER benefit from acts of terrorism, nor would they go to heaven, etc. etc. Yet, that never seemed to happen (at least not in the US press).

                              I realize they are set up differently than some other major religions (which have a figurehead at the top) - but surely the key to solving the problems of terrorism begin with a course correction of the Islamic elite telling their followers that violence is not the answer? The West will never solve terrorism - it can only be stemmed from within.
                              Our forefathers died to give us freedom, not free stuff.

                              I write books about zombies as E.E. Isherwood. Check me out at ZombieBooks.net.

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