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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
    Idiots setting off fireworks to announce they are having a boy/girl download.
    AFAIK, that's been debunked. There may have been idiots, but they did not start the fires.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DingBat View Post

      Anything that's sourced from Anthony Watts is complete and utter horseshit.

      As it says, right in the data source:
      Watts didn't make/generate the data. He used this source to put it into a visual/graph form;
      https://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/fireIn...otalFires.html
      And they are pointing out a procedural change on reporting, but not disputing the the records prior to 1983.

      Note that NIFC is a fairly new organization, EXCERPT;
      ...
      Mission

      The National Interagency Fire Center (NIFC), located in Boise, Idaho, is the nation's support center for wildland firefighting. Eight different agencies and organizations are part of NIFC. Decisions are made using the interagency cooperation concept because NIFC has no single director or manager.

      History

      The Boise Interagency Fire Center (BIFC) was created in 1965 because the US Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management (BLM), and National Weather Service saw the need to work together to reduce the duplication of services, cut costs, and coordinate national fire planning and operations. The National Park Service and Bureau of Indian Affairs joined BIFC in in the mid 1970s. The US Fish and Wildlife Service later joined in 1979. The Center's name was changed in 1993 from the Boise Interagency Fire Center to the National Interagency Fire Center to more accurately reflect its national mission.
      ...
      https://www.nifc.gov/aboutNIFC/about_mission.html

      From their "about" page;
      ...
      At NIFC, we support many different kinds of emergency responses, including floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, riots, and terrorist attacks (9/11 and Oklahoma City bombing), radios to Haiti. However, our primary focus is on wildland firefighting. The agencies that are represented here share firefighting supplies, equipment, and personnel, which helps ensure efficient and cost-effective incident management. They work together to establish policy, exchange information, and train personnel. And, when the national fire situation escalates, activate the National Multi-Agency Coordinating group. This group sets priorities for critical, and sometimes scarce, equipment, supplies and personnel.
      ....
      https://www.nifc.gov/aboutNIFC/about_main.html

      The U.S. Forest Service is the main Federal Agency for managing forests and forest/wildfires and interestingly they link back to the above NIFC statistics when showing such at their webpage;
      https://www.fs.usda.gov/managing-land/fire

      ......
      You might consider setting your political partisanship aside.



      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
      “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

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      • #18
        Another interesting page that includes an interactive wildfire map;
        https://www.fs.usda.gov/science-tech...re/information
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
        “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

          Blah, blah, blah.

          You might consider setting your political partisanship aside.
          No one who's interested in political bi-partisanship posts anything from Watts.

          As it says, right in the data source:
          Prior to 1983, sources of these figures are not known, or cannot be confirmed, and were not derived from the current situation reporting process. As a result the figures prior to 1983 should not be compared to later data.
          Last edited by DingBat; 15 Sep 20, 14:58.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by DingBat View Post

            No one who's interested in political bi-partisanship posts anything from Watts.

            As it says, right in the data source:
            But the figures still exist and their statement was just CYA on statistical process semantics.
            Others have and present such, like this from Insurance Information Institute;

            (Which was presented in an earlier post here)
            https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/f...tics-wildfires
            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
            “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by DingBat View Post

              AFAIK, that's been debunked. There may have been idiots, but they did not start the fires.
              Actually, arson often is a major factor/cause of wildfires and seems to be a slight uptick this year;
              Arson arrests made across the west coast as fires rage on

              https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/...anned-attack/?
              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
              “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by DingBat View Post

                AFAIK, that's been debunked. There may have been idiots, but they did not start the fires.
                That was YOU???
                ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                IN MARE IN COELO

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                  But the figures still exist and their statement was just CYA on statistical process semantics.
                  Others have and present such, like this from Insurance Information Institute;

                  (Which was presented in an earlier post here)
                  https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/f...tics-wildfires
                  Which uses data starting in the 1980s. I wonder why Watts felt it necessary to include the problematic data in his graph?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DingBat View Post

                    Which uses data starting in the 1980s. I wonder why Watts felt it necessary to include the problematic data in his graph?
                    1980 to be specific and before that 1983 cutoff you think is where the only real data begins.

                    Meanwhile seems you may not understand the message of #17 above.
                    The National Interagency Fire Center (NIFC) used/presented the data so are you claiming they are misleading or presenting inaccurate data?
                    The U.S. Forest Service also links to the NIFC and this "questionable" data so are you claiming the USFS is also misleading and/or deluded?

                    You may have to ask Watts that question, but like most others, likely since it was there and no other or altered numbers are offered, may have felt it was endorsed in some way.
                    Better question is to the NIFC as to why they show this data if it's not meant to be used.

                    Watts made a graph, of what you think is questionable data. The issue isn't Watts and a graph he made, should be about the data used and why it's presented if not meant to be used.
                    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                    “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                      Watts made a graph, of what you think is questionable data. The issue isn't Watts and a graph he made, should be about the data used and why it's presented if not meant to be used.
                      Watts doesn't make graphs unless he thinks he can spin the data to say something it's not intended to say.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DingBat View Post

                        Watts doesn't make graphs unless he thinks he can spin the data to say something it's not intended to say.
                        Your subjective opinion - noted.

                        The graph attributed to Watts matches this data from NIFC, so what is the "spin" you think he is trying to convey?
                        https://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/fireIn...otalFires.html
                        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                        “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Jose50 View Post

                          The new ones are...
                          I don't think you want to compare the 50's or 60's to present times. The younger generation is not the problem here.
                          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                          - Benjamin Franklin

                          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

                            I don't think you want to compare the 50's or 60's to present times. The younger generation is not the problem here.
                            I disagree. In my opinion, the majority of the 'younger generation', as you call them, were brought up on fast food, seatbelts/child seats, Sesame Street and television as a babysitter, daycare, the internet, helicopter parents, highly organized 'playdates', carpooling soccer moms to drive them to after school sports/enrichment programs, and with no chance for 'free range' playtime. The Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and similar girls' programs were seen as irrelevant, outdated organizations. Dads and moms have not shared the knowledge passed down by their parents about woodcraft, sewing, cooking, carpentry, mechanical manipulation of hand tools, of how to fish, hunt, apply first aid, or keep house...things that my generation were taught and were expected to know.
                            So, yeah, the younger generations, by thinking that they don't need to know these things, are part of the problem when they venture out to do those things of which they know nothing except what they see on 'youtube'.
                            Good old Smoky the Bear has been forced into retirement and is no longer a player.
                            Last edited by Jose50; 17 Sep 20, 07:36.
                            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                            IN MARE IN COELO

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              You're safe, I hope.
                              As safe as I can be working at a HS that's been sent to remote learning - I've got a few (4) kids here that need special one-on-one help and we're doing double social distancing along with masks. Still...
                              ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                              IN MARE IN COELO

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jose50 View Post

                                As safe as I can be working at a HS that's been sent to remote learning - I've got a few (4) kids here that need special one-on-one help and we're doing double social distancing along with masks. Still...
                                I hear you.
                                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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