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Consanguinity as a major predictor of levels of democracy: A study of 70 nations

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  • #46
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    No amount of philosophical sophistication is going to overturn the common sense observation that intelligence is essential to social organization
    Sorry, wolf, but I have to reject this one as well. Ants and bees are extremely socialized but not "intelligent". The same is true of dolphins and whales, who might be more intelligent than we are.

    Socializing is nothing more than banding together to make the best of things and deciding where one;s place in within that group. We now know that Neanderthals, long thought to be very primitive and low on the intelligence scale were, in fact, socially quite advanced.

    Maybe the problem is redefining "intelligence"?
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Marmat View Post

      Personally, I don't think anyone looks all that good in a diaper.
      Interestingly, he shows obvious signs of feminization - gynecomastia and a female pelvic shape with a pelvis wider than his upper body.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        Sorry, wolf, but I have to reject this one as well. Ants and bees are extremely socialized but not "intelligent". The same is true of dolphins and whales, who might be more intelligent than we are.

        Socializing is nothing more than banding together to make the best of things and deciding where one;s place in within that group. We now know that Neanderthals, long thought to be very primitive and low on the intelligence scale were, in fact, socially quite advanced.

        Maybe the problem is redefining "intelligence"?
        Right now we are ants but earlier we were not. You can reject it all you want but complex social organization in an agrarian society such as Sumerian society requires abstract reasoning. You have to follow along and fill in the missing bits because I'm typing on a phone.
        We hunt the hunters

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        • #49
          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

          Right now we are ants but earlier we were not. You can reject it all you want but complex social organization in an agrarian society such as Sumerian society requires abstract reasoning. You have to follow along and fill in the missing bits because I'm typing on a phone.
          And good morning to you, too. You can make an argument for highly complex social organization...until you end up in New York City where "consanguinity" becomes something of a joke in the midst of one of the most complex social organizations in the world.

          I'm not really fan of one-size-fits-all as an answer to much of anything.

          Maybe you should buy a phone with more keys?

          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

            like I said if you have serious questions address them to the authors. I'm not an expert.

            That said I am unhappy you elected to call me a liar. You fail to understand my philosophy in which there are only trivial absolute truths. It isn't so much shades of grey as humility. I'm not so insecure as to be easily offended but what would be the point of talking to a liar.
            None of us think that you are lying.....I would recommend reading Paul TILLICH- my Quest for absolutes.

            \btw- since our last discussion I did some research; Dr. Brinkley's establishment was flooded by the Milford reservoir in 1968- and Milford town was moved to higher ground. Strangely, nothing in the town seems to have ben named after him.
            Milford is now a lakeside resort, and it's nudie beach is rated 'best in Kansas'https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=milford+kansas+nudie+beach&qpvt=milford+k ansas+nudie+beach&form=IGRE&first=1&cw=1129&ch=511
            Last edited by marktwain; 20 Nov 19, 19:11.
            The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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            • #51
              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
              https://www.researchgate.net/profile...70-Nations.pdf

              Interesting study, I'm a little sceptical of the degree to which the conclusions rely on biological determinism but even that is good for thought.
              You do realize that the definition of consanguinity is incest and inbreeding, correct?


              NOUN
              the fact of being descended from the same ancestor.
              "the marriage was annulled on grounds of consanguinity"
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                You do realize that the definition of consanguinity is incest and inbreeding, correct?

                You should be too full of Turkey to be posting
                We hunt the hunters

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                  You should be too full of Turkey to be posting
                  As should you.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    As should you.
                    Turkey withdraw symptoms go away after a few hours, besides I had what's good for you: beef.
                    We hunt the hunters

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      As should you.
                      Since we are being personal I have sympathy for what I have come to believe is your overall philosophy. Something similar to kiss my ass :-) or "keep it simple stupid" . Knowing that you are from a medical background I understand the similarity with engineering in that practicality is job one. That proven practices not theories dominate the art.

                      If we were here to solve anything that would be ok by me. The primary function of this format however is entertainment. Even in the military section the complexity tends to overwhelm the facts. It comes down to personality and what you find entertaining.

                      I read scientific papers for entertainment. I really don't care how well written they are. This undoubtedly reflects my deficiency in art appreciation. Perhaps an even more serious condition related to autistic personality traits.
                      Last edited by wolfhnd; 29 Nov 19, 11:23.
                      We hunt the hunters

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                        Since we are being personal I have sympathy for what I have come to believe is your overall philosophy. Something similar to kiss my ass :-) or "keep it simple stupid" . Knowing that you are from a medical background I understand the similarity with engineering in that practicality is job one. That proven practices not theories dominate the art.

                        If we were here to solve anything that would be ok by me. The primary function of this format however is entertainment. Even in the military section the complexity tends to overwhelm the facts. It comes down to personality and what you find entertaining.

                        I read scientific papers for entertainment. I really don't care how well written they are. This undoubtedly reflects my deficiency in art appreciation. Perhaps an even more serious condition related to autistic personality traits.
                        Of course we medical types are empiricists. Would you like to be my patient/guinea pig for testing wild theories, folk remedies and crystal healing, or do you actually expect serious treatments based upon proven, viable and reproducible results obtained through decades of research, vigorous testing, skill and experience? Want a real doctor or a witch doctor? You're comparing watermelons and guinea pigs. (Although I do have a terrific anecdote about a colleague and a malingerer!)

                        Meanwhile, I see no connection in your post to the actual definition of consanguinity as in-breeding, and the subsequent rise of democracies. How that is supposed to be entertaining...I have no clue, but it does nicely explain the origin of politicians.

                        Reading anything for entertainment is commendable, but not as a source of serious discussion. You might consider making use of some of the available emoticons to insure that the rest of us poor savages better understand your intent, because your often lengthy and highly pendantic posts do not come across in any way as "funny" or "entertaining"; they come across as serious statements of fact.

                        Or come up with a more humorous writing style.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                          Turkey withdraw symptoms go away after a few hours, besides I had what's good for you: beef.
                          And I didn't eat any turkey at all, since we did not have Thanksgiving dinner due to travel delays of family. Still haven't had it and probably won't.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • #58
                            Hmm...wolfh0und is strangely silent on the issue of the actual definition of "consanguinity" and how it could relate to his theory.
                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Hmm...wolfh0und is strangely silent on the issue of the actual definition of "consanguinity" and how it could relate to his theory.
                              It's not my theory, you can explore the authors work as easily as I can.

                              If you don't like their choice of words you can send them a nasty letter.

                              That said they explain the definition of consanguinity to my satisfaction. Perhaps I just don't live up to your standards.
                              We hunt the hunters

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                                For example Jared Diamonds "Guns, Germs and Steel" has been thoroughly "debunked" but remains insightful. If you are interested in such things I recommend Why the West Rules - For Now by Ian Morris. Morris's book has of course also been criticized for relying on "brute, material forces".

                                The explanation for the severity of the criticism is undoubtedly linked to the predominance of quasi "Marxist" thinking in universities. Anything that challenges the social constructionist view of human development will be routinely dismissed by the dominant intelligentsia oddly enough on both the left and the right.
                                Ahhh…. the old bug-bear of blaming 'Marxist leaning' universities for producing "the dominant intelligentsia" which has so bedeviled 'true' critical thinking for so long.

                                Must have been 18 years old when I first heard that wail from the Right - the tune and the scapegoat never changes it seems.

                                Well if you want to work yourself up into a 'Righteous' lather may I suggest you have a look at:
                                "Traces of History - Elementary Structures of Race' by Patrick Wolfe (Verso Books 2016)

                                Saw a copy in bookshop (in the discount/bargain bin no less!) last week and remembered looking at it when it came out a few years ago.

                                Might give you a very different 'take' on the issue of colonialism and race etc. from Diamond and Morris.

                                A brief review summary concludes:

                                "Widely known for his pioneering work in the field of settler colonial studies, Patrick Wolfe advanced the theory that settler colonialism was, “a structure, not an event.” In early 2016, Wolfe deepened this analysis through his most recent book, Traces of History: Elementary Structures of Race (Verso Books, 2016) which takes a comparative approach to five cases in: Australia, Brazil, Europe, North America, and Palestine/Israel.

                                Just as settler colonialism grew through institutionalized structures of Indigenous elimination, categorical notions of race grew through purpose-driven (and context-specific) exploitation, classification and separation. In Traces of History, the machinery and genealogy of race are as present in land relations as they are in legal precedents.

                                Wolfe ties together a transnational pattern of labor substitution and slavery, Indigenous land dispossession, and the inception of racial categories which continue to normalize these historical processes into the present. While the Indigenous/settler relationship is binary across societies,

                                Wolfe posits, the seemingly fixed concepts of race it produces are, actually, widely varied. Bearing strong threads of influence by Said, DuBois, Marx, and countless Indigenous and Aboriginal scholars, Wolfe lays down a model for drawing connections across these cases, while simultaneously acknowledging that as with any ongoing process, there remain pathways for optimism and change."


                                Love it when 'we' (The West) are to blame for everything..

                                Got some marvelous tutorial discussions out of that approach. Surprising how incredibly sensitive some people are to criticism of 'their' civilization.

                                Great stuff.
                                If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. - Noam Chomsky


                                Regards lodestar







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