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  • Another Gouge Of The Innocent And Vulnerable

    Yesterday I took my mother-in-law's dog to the vet to be euthanized. The dog, a chihuahua, was very old, deaf and almost totally blind and had stopped eating. It was time to ease her suffering.

    The vet clinic weighted the dog to determine the dose, just under five pounds - have her a shot of pentobarbitol and she was gone. Cost? $152 USD.

    My mother-in-law is 86, on a fixed retirement income - no Social Security because she worked for the State - and gets a box from the food bank every two weeks. This was a terrible blow on top of the loss of her constant companion for many, many years. She had that little dog since it was born.

    Cost to the clinic for five minutes of their time and 1 ml of an old, dirt-cheap drug? A couple of bucks, tops.

    Incidentally, this was the cheapest euthanasia available. The publicly funded Humane Shelter no longer offers that service, which cost a a mere $30, mostly to cover cremation cost.



    I just needed to express my anger. Thanks for bearing with me.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

  • #2
    .22 bullets are cheap and painless if administered correctly

    “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein

    The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

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    • #3
      Firstly, I truly sympathise with what she is going through... and her financial situation didn’t help but just made the emotional event much worse.
      But I must defend the vet here too. They study many years to get where they are, and have huge debts to payoff once graduating. Coupled with the emotional roller coaster of dealing with people who dearly love their pets but can’t always pay, they feel guilt as well. Here in Australia vets are leaving their profession in greater numbers, plus suicide rates are alarmingly high.
      "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
      Ernest Hemingway.

      In english "silence" means yelling louder than everyone else.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Yesterday I took my mother-in-law's dog to the vet to be euthanized. The dog, a chihuahua, was very old, deaf and almost totally blind and had stopped eating. It was time to ease her suffering.

        The vet clinic weighted the dog to determine the dose, just under five pounds - have her a shot of pentobarbitol and she was gone. Cost? $152 USD.

        My mother-in-law is 86, on a fixed retirement income - no Social Security because she worked for the State - and gets a box from the food bank every two weeks. This was a terrible blow on top of the loss of her constant companion for many, many years. She had that little dog since it was born.

        Cost to the clinic for five minutes of their time and 1 ml of an old, dirt-cheap drug? A couple of bucks, tops.

        Incidentally, this was the cheapest euthanasia available. The publicly funded Humane Shelter no longer offers that service, which cost a a mere $30, mostly to cover cremation cost.



        I just needed to express my anger. Thanks for bearing with me.
        I feel her pain. my dogs meds are more costly than mine...………...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
          But I must defend the vet here too. They study many years to get where they are, and have huge debts to payoff once graduating. Coupled with the emotional roller coaster of dealing with people who dearly love their pets but can’t always pay, they feel guilt as well. Here in Australia vets are leaving their profession in greater numbers, plus suicide rates are alarmingly high.
          Pets are a privilege, not a right. If an owner is too old or infirm to pick up after his dog, does that mean it can crap wherever it likes for someone else to tread? No. The privilege of ownership comes with responsibilities. Those unable to live up to the responsibilities cannot enjoy the privileges. It may seem harsh, but it is the price of a free society.
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          • #6
            Can a dog which could be carried away by a seagull be considered a real dog?
            "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
            validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
            "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post

              I feel her pain. my dogs meds are more costly than mine...………...
              Yeah...that too.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                Can a dog which could be carried away by a seagull be considered a real dog?
                You're obviously not a pet person, nor a compassionate one.

                Last edited by Mountain Man; 04 Oct 19, 11:56.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
                  Pets are a privilege, not a right. If an owner is too old or infirm to pick up after his dog, does that mean it can crap wherever it likes for someone else to tread? No. The privilege of ownership comes with responsibilities. Those unable to live up to the responsibilities cannot enjoy the privileges. It may seem harsh, but it is the price of a free society.
                  Not a shred of decency or compassion in you. Of course pets are a privilege. So is your own life. You're only here on this earth as a by-product of someone else's reproductive urges. They could certainly have lived a good life without you. You're an accident of nature and hormones, period. You don't need medical care or dental care or any care for yourself, either; you are free to suffer and endure as nature intended, and if you cannot endure then you are free to die, or to pay whatever exhorbitant fee someone demands should you actually feel the need to seek help, and should anyone feel the need to give you any.

                  And you certainly do not require any friends or companions while you are doing it. Those are privileges, too.
                  Last edited by Mountain Man; 04 Oct 19, 11:58.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post
                    Firstly, I truly sympathise with what she is going through... and her financial situation didn’t help but just made the emotional event much worse.
                    But I must defend the vet here too. They study many years to get where they are, and have huge debts to payoff once graduating. Coupled with the emotional roller coaster of dealing with people who dearly love their pets but can’t always pay, they feel guilt as well. Here in Australia vets are leaving their profession in greater numbers, plus suicide rates are alarmingly high.
                    Killing a dog requires no skill whatsoever. And before the PC disease overcame the Humane Society, the cost was $30, much of which went to support the shelter. Pentobarb is an old and very cheap drug.

                    The debts of the vet are not my problem. He chose his profession, as I chose mine. In my thirty years of practice I saw a great many people die, but I'm still here, so I must be tougher than your doctors and your vets. But I never gouged the families. I offered them the same compassion as my patients. The Hippocratic Oath starts with "First, do you no harm."

                    At least your Australian vets get what I am trying to say, even though you obviously do not. I'll simplify; the vet industry has gone the way of the mortuary industry. What I did not mention was their effort to sell us pet cemetery plots and fancy urns.

                    I have no use for those who capitalize on the death of loved ones.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Funny how the supposedly liberal empathetic people have no problem looking out for their own interests first. Poor people are the tax payers problem not their own.

                      The cost of health care, including veterinarian care, continues to inflate as wages stagnate. The ignorant liberal masses despite personal educational achievement seem totally unaware of the natural law of supply and demand. As medical services become more sophisticated and effective demand is bound to increase. What keep health care affordable in the past was how ineffective it was and how little it depended on technology. Technology is expensive when it cannot take advantage of mass production as is the case with medical care. The more effective medical care becomes the more demand and the supply cannot increase if it is socialized. One way or the other it will be rationed either through absurd waiting periods or affordability. Empathy especially the shallow political variety is no substitute for rational solutions.

                      That said there is no excuse for the lack of personal empathy displayed by some of the above comments. As I have said before personal and public morality are two different animals. On a personal level we are obligated to act in the present but in matters of public interest cold logic and long term solutions that exclude normal unreasoning empathy are often called for. What is hypocritical is selective empathy and politically motivated empathy.
                      We hunt the hunters

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                        Funny how the supposedly liberal empathetic people have no problem looking out for their own interests first. Poor people are the tax payers problem not their own.

                        The cost of health care, including veterinarian care, continues to inflate as wages stagnate. The ignorant liberal masses despite personal educational achievement seem totally unaware of the natural law of supply and demand. As medical services become more sophisticated and effective demand is bound to increase. What keep health care affordable in the past was how ineffective it was and how little it depended on technology. Technology is expensive when it cannot take advantage of mass production as is the case with medical care. The more effective medical care becomes the more demand and the supply cannot increase if it is socialized. One way or the other it will be rationed either through absurd waiting periods or affordability. Empathy especially the shallow political variety is no substitute for rational solutions.

                        That said there is no excuse for the lack of personal empathy displayed by some of the above comments. As I have said before personal and public morality are two different animals. On a personal level we are obligated to act in the present but in matters of public interest cold logic and long term solutions that exclude normal unreasoning empathy are often called for. What is hypocritical is selective empathy and politically motivated empathy.
                        Personally, I always wanted to just once practice medicine the way other people do their jobs. I wanted to see the realization dawn in their eyes when they experienced being on that side of things for once.

                        "Of course I will provide you with emergency, life-saving care...BUT it's triple the normal rate because it's a weekend." Or, "I'm sorry. I know you'e in agony, but my shift ended ten minutes ago. We're open again tomorrow morning."

                        My grandfather said it best: "The trouble with the world is that people are just no damned good." This from one of the kindest and most compassionate men I ever knew.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          Killing a dog requires no skill whatsoever. And before the PC disease overcame the Humane Society, the cost was $30, much of which went to support the shelter. Pentobarb is an old and very cheap drug.

                          The debts of the vet are not my problem. He chose his profession, as I chose mine. In my thirty years of practice I saw a great many people die, but I'm still here, so I must be tougher than your doctors and your vets. But I never gouged the families. I offered them the same compassion as my patients. The Hippocratic Oath starts with "First, do you no harm."

                          At least your Australian vets get what I am trying to say, even though you obviously do not. I'll simplify; the vet industry has gone the way of the mortuary industry. What I did not mention was their effort to sell us pet cemetery plots and fancy urns.

                          I have no use for those who capitalize on the death of loved ones.
                          You're barking up the wrong tree, the vets are caught in the middle... they're not the ones having to deal with massive drugs price rises. Pentobarb rose as much as 1000% the last few years due to the lack of competing drug companies being able to set the prices as they wish.
                          So stop being obnoxious next time you think $152 is ridiculous when a young veterinarian starting out with a $150,000 debt is trying to make ends meet while drug prices are beyond their control.
                          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                          Ernest Hemingway.

                          In english "silence" means yelling louder than everyone else.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Achtung Baby View Post

                            You're barking up the wrong tree, the vets are caught in the middle... they're not the ones having to deal with massive drugs price rises. Pentobarb rose as much as 1000% the last few years due to the lack of competing drug companies being able to set the prices as they wish.
                            So stop being obnoxious next time you think $152 is ridiculous when a young veterinarian starting out with a $150,000 debt is trying to make ends meet while drug prices are beyond their control.
                            "Obnoxious"? A personal insult rather than an intelligent comment? Well, now we know where you;re coming from, don't we?

                            I'm not there to pay off his college debt. I'm there to find mercy and compassion for a loyal, loving dying companion of my mother-in-law. The vet chose his profession with full knowledge of what his debt would be. You sound like a socialist.

                            BTW - Pentobarb is not a proprietary drug and hasn't been for along time. According to your logic, hospitals really need to charge ten dollars or more for an aspirin tablet and fifty dollars for a simple dressing you can buy cheaply at Walgreens. And if you actually believe that those charges are valid, you're living in a fantasy world.

                            You also deliberately overlooked my comment that prior to their change in service philosophy, the Humane Society did it for a fraction of the cost. And you totally ignored the human emotional cost to the owner, an elderly lady on a fixed income. She doesn't have that kind of extra money in her life, but that's OK to you because her real obligation is to pay off a college debt she never incurred.

                            It's to bad I retired from medicine; I would love to have you for a patient...just once.

                            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                            • #15
                              It costs about three times that in the UK.

                              Fortunately your mother in law’s dog died quickly, as did ours last year. I know of multiple dogs that have taken 20 minutes or more to go because of incompetent vets.
                              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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