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  • Symbols of Heritage/Faith in Schools

    I would like to know what you think about "our" children being told what they can wear to school and what they can not wear. Is it an issue that should bring up so much debate or an issue that would be better off left alone to help stop the "racial catacysm" that we have today?
    In my opinion, if we stop them from wearing their symbols of heritage (white, black, hispanic, Jewish, etc.) I believe that their growing brains will begin to develop racial/ethnic prujudices.
    I also believe that until each school designs and furnishes a "uniform code", that they are breaking the law and the rights under the Constitution.

    Mark
    Deo Vindice
    Si vis pacem, para bellum. (If you want peace, prepare for war.)

  • #2
    I would like to know what you think about "our" children being told what they can wear to school and what they can not wear.
    I have no problem with a uniform or a dress code in a public school.

    I also believe that until each school designs and furnishes a "uniform code", that they are breaking the law and the rights under the Constitution.
    I'm not disagreeing but I'm also not in agreement.

    I'd like to know what law and/or rights they are breaking in the constitution if no uniform code is created.

    Amendment 10

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.



    I don't see any power delegated to the US federal government that it must supply a dress code for schools. I would think this would be a state issue...
    Islam... it's a blast - literally.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not qualified to comment on the US Constitution since I'm English, but if it's of any interest to this discussion, the French Government (boo, hiss) has just outlawed the wearing of Islamic headscarves in schools.

      I believe this ban may also extend to Jewish headgear (sorry, I don't know the proper name for what they wear) and even overt symbols of Christian worship - like wearing large crosses on necklaces etc.

      I'm of the view that this may actually be in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights, but the French, along with the Germans, seem to think that they can flout EU rules whenever they like - so that's alright then (sarcasm).

      Regards,

      Dr. S.
      Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

      www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

      www.tabletown.co.uk

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Reiryc
        I have no problem with a uniform or a dress code in a public school.



        I'm not disagreeing but I'm also not in agreement.

        I'd like to know what law and/or rights they are breaking in the constitution if no uniform code is created.

        Amendment 10

        The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.



        I don't see any power delegated to the US federal government that it must supply a dress code for schools. I would think this would be a state issue...
        This is a state issue. In actuality, it falls more within the in-state or county level.
        I just believe that if a school tries to dictate what "our" children wear, let them foot the bill for buying "uniforms" for them.
        Just as the Jews were made to wear the Star of David during the holocaust, "our" children are being forced to turn their "symbols of heritage", etc. inside out so that they dont offend anyone.

        This falls strictly on the states and counties, not the Federal Govt.

        Mark
        Deo Vindice
        Si vis pacem, para bellum. (If you want peace, prepare for war.)

        Comment


        • #5
          You are probably right, Dr. Sinister.
          Each day you turn around, something is going to be taken from you.
          Excuse me for the comments, but the French and German governments do act as if they can do just that with the rules.
          Im afraid thats what is becoming of the US as well.

          Mark
          Deo Vindice
          Si vis pacem, para bellum. (If you want peace, prepare for war.)

          Comment


          • #6
            This is a state issue. In actuality, it falls more within the in-state or county level.
            Agreed.

            I just believe that if a school tries to dictate what "our" children wear, let them foot the bill for buying "uniforms" for them.
            They dictate things they do not foot the bill for already:

            School supplies
            appropriate gym shoes

            Just as the Jews were made to wear the Star of David during the holocaust, "our" children are being forced to turn their "symbols of heritage", etc. inside out so that they dont offend anyone.
            Hypersensitivity to religion has gone too far, I agree. I wouldn't quite compare it to the holocaust though.

            This falls strictly on the states and counties, not the Federal Govt.
            I agree.

            I thought earlier though you were saying that this situation was un-constitutional (federal government) and misunderstood.
            Islam... it's a blast - literally.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Symbols of Heritage/Faith in Schools

              Originally posted by last_cav1971
              I would like to know what you think about "our" children being told what they can wear to school and what they can not wear. Is it an issue that should bring up so much debate or an issue that would be better off left alone to help stop the "racial catacysm" that we have today?
              In my opinion, if we stop them from wearing their symbols of heritage (white, black, hispanic, Jewish, etc.) I believe that their growing brains will begin to develop racial/ethnic prujudices.
              I also believe that until each school designs and furnishes a "uniform code", that they are breaking the law and the rights under the Constitution.

              Mark
              Deo Vindice
              Dress codes are, to me, another form of regimentation. Conversely though, I can see the utility of them for security purposes. If a member of the school staff see someone in the hallways (or elsewhere) whom they know to not be a member of the staff and is not in the school uniform, it will be obvious they are an intruder. While it is regrettable that we must adopt such measures, that is the reality of today..

              As for wearing religious or other symbols, I expect the ACLU will have comments about that (though I couldn't care less what a pack of ultra-leftists such as the ACLU thinks), I see no problem with religious symbols (cross, crescent, Star of David), but pseudo-cultural symbols (e.g. "black power") tend to be provocative, polarizing

              As for a statewide of nationwide dress code, much debate on this has occured and, not surprisingly, most states don't want the federal government to meddle in this issue - they don't even like the idea of national academic standards.

              Many people and organizations would like nothing better than to be allowed to indoctrinate our children in a variety of areas. I submit that teachers should be watched to see that they are teaching and not indoctrinating. Several of my college professors injected a heavy dose of partisan politics into their lectures, and tended to be less than gracious when I pointed that out to them.

              I do not personally see that there is currently a Constitutional violation in the schools with which I am familiar. It has been previously rule on that, in school settings, some freedom of expression and assembly must be abrogated in the interest of public order.
              Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
              (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Symbols of Heritage/Faith in Schools

                Originally posted by last_cav1971
                I would like to know what you think about "our" children being told what they can wear to school and what they can not wear. Is it an issue that should bring up so much debate or an issue that would be better off left alone to help stop the "racial catacysm" that we have today?
                In my opinion, if we stop them from wearing their symbols of heritage (white, black, hispanic, Jewish, etc.) I believe that their growing brains will begin to develop racial/ethnic prujudices.
                I also believe that until each school designs and furnishes a "uniform code", that they are breaking the law and the rights under the Constitution.

                Mark
                Deo Vindice
                This is a state or local issue, not one for the federal government. The central government has no authority to direct, ban, or pay for uniforms for kids to wear to school. Nor do they have the authority to ban kids from wearing religious clothing--at least not under the First Amendment.

                JS
                Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                "Never pet a burning dog."

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                • #9
                  It should be done at the local and school district level; I just wish there it was a district-wide vote instead of the Lord on High Supreme District Superintendant God-on-Earth making a decree and the bobbing-head dogs on the school district board rubber stamping it.

                  I never had to wear a uniform (except on pickle Wednesday), but now, just about every school district in town (for some reason we have more than one... another issue) has uniforms for daily wear.
                  If voting could really change things, it would be illegal.

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                  • #10
                    As long as the clothing isn't obscene (that's a whole other issue), let them wear what they want.......
                    Lance W.

                    Peace through superior firepower.

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                    • #11
                      Here in Canada, some schools have a uniform which are mainly private and most do not although there is a dress code. My daughter goes to High School grade 10 and after seeing the girls and guys on the first day of school, they should be dictated on how to dress. Some males have pants down to their knees and the girls have jeans super low cut and half sized sweaters. School is a place of learning not to fashion off your wares.
                      Also in Montreal there was a case of a youth male of Pakistani?? descent who wanted to wear a ceremonial dagger to school. The school said no, the schoolboard said no. He refused to remove it on religious grounds. He was expelled. His case was heard in Quebec Superior Court?? and it was held he could not wear the ceremonial dagger.
                      Now as much as I support the freedoms in this country, I must agree with the Courts in this case. Some of our schools have metal detectors to prevent weapons from entering schools and he and others in his case would not and should not be allowed.
                      And as for not allowing the wearing of religious symbols, maybe we should look at it in a different way. I don't think it's racism to prevent them being worn, but maybe it serves the contrary. No religious symbols, no ceremonial clothing, everybody treated the same. Can't tell who is Jewish, Muslim or Roman Catholic? Everybody plays together and no one cares what religion he/she is.
                      http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

                      Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

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                      • #12
                        The title for this thread is Symbols of Heritage/Faith in Schools , yet the thread has focused on other aspects of what a school should and should not be allowed for students to wear. The two are distinctly different.

                        Of the schools in New York City that I have been in, or had contact with, there are some basic rules.
                        1) No hats (which does not prohibit yarmulkes, and the like)
                        2) No du-rags
                        3) No colors (gang identifying items)
                        4) Clothing that is distracting. In a number of schools no bare midriffs are specified.
                        5) and others

                        The rules distinguish between cultural/religious and social wear. Within reason, cultrual/religious wear is not restricted, generally provided that the wear is for a recognized religion/belief or culture. Inner city urban life is not considered a culture in this context.

                        Dress codes are implemented in a number of schools, usually voted for by the parents of students attending the individual schools. Restrictions are focused on prohibiting clothing items which are inappropriate for wear by children (anyone under 18), and which may be construed as antagonistic to others.

                        Granted these are broad in their definitions. What the Department of Ed in NYC has done is recognize the individuality of different schools, and the needs of their constituency, as well as look after the common good throught the city.

                        I am personally against forced wear of uniforms in public schools, though I did vote for them in my sons' grade school. The dress code proviso made uniform wearing optional. The result was, though not everyone wore uniforms, almost everyone began to adhere to a defacto dress code. Not everyone could afford uniforms, but they could at least provide clean, acceptable clothing for their children.

                        I do not believe that curtailing certain dress styles promotes bigotry. On the contrary, there is enough divisiveness in our world, that by accepting certain "norms" we can focus on the things that are similar. Hopefully, the result will be fewer walls between our sub-cultures, and perhaps make those difference recede.
                        Retreat hell, we just got here. Every Marine, a rifleman.

                        Never let the facts get in the way of the truth.

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                        • #13
                          I can't help but think of the Simpsons episode with school uniforms where all the kids began to blink in unison...


                          ...Seriously though, I feel that uniforms aren't really worth it. I agree completely with certain regulations (back when I was in high school there were requirements like no bare midriffs, no speghetti -spelling?- straps, no shirts with profanity or sexual innuendo, etc). I think these guidelines were fine, I don't feel that there is any significant advantage in requiring uniforms (in looking at it from a cost vs. benefits manner). I don't think schools should be requiring families to foot the bill, and I don't think they should be paying for the uniforms either - there are many other things they could be buying (I happened to be able to go to school in a very rich area of the state, so we weren't really wanting in any resources, but lots of schools out there were, and there were improvements they could have provided funding for even for my old school).


                          Besides, as far as I'm concerned the real problem is what a lot of kids are wearing outside of school. I've seen 13 year old girls walking around that would put the hookers in Times Square to shame.


                          Come to think of it, are there really even hookers in Times Square? I mean, that's doesn't seem like a smart area of the city to try to not get arrested...
                          “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Overseer
                            [B]
                            Besides, as far as I'm concerned the real problem is what a lot of kids are wearing outside of school. I've seen 13 year old girls walking around that would put the hookers in Times Square to shame.

                            /B]
                            Its a tough time to be a parent.....Shoot, even the Olsen twins are looking pretty slutty these days.........
                            Lance W.

                            Peace through superior firepower.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lance Williams
                              Its a tough time to be a parent.....Shoot, even the Olsen twins are looking pretty slutty these days.........
                              Know that all too well...........I have 5 kids myself...........

                              Mark
                              Deo Vindice
                              Si vis pacem, para bellum. (If you want peace, prepare for war.)

                              Comment

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