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  • The Dark Arts

    I thought the theme of this thread might provoke some interesting comments from our rational membership.

    This lovely place...

    http://www.britannia.com/history/legend/borley.html

    ... is just a few miles from where i write this.

    Question...

    What are members thoughts, experiences and comments regarding the ethereal and the magical (ghosts, magic, hauntings etc)?

    Over to you...

    Gaz

  • #2
    The only ghosts I have ever seen are in my dreams. Usually it's seeing my parents or other relative who has passed on doing normal day to day stuff. Frankly that hurts more than any other spectre can.
    Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

    "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

    What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.

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    • #3
      Shitze......Gaz ole son.... I'm too much of a multi-ethnic mut to NOT believe in the wierd and unusual...i blame the Nuns first cuz them and my Ma got me to believing in the wine into blood thing years ago.

      Then was the time... i was about 9 or 10 and saw Lugosi's performance as the Vampire King....man i was so gawdamn scared i went and saw the favorite Uncle, who incedently was nipping boubon on the back porch...he immediately advised me to go sharpen up some of them engineer stakes we had in the barn and locate my grandpa's 3lb sledge. GOOD Man my Uncle.

      Now with all that and my 'paper route bag' filled with the aforementioned and several stolen pieces of garlicfrom my great aunt Lupia....i was set.

      Spent most of week out on the llano at night looking for them heathen 'mofos'.... but alas was recalled to shovel cowshit in the pens.

      Hence my days as a vampire hunter were brief but ntl exhilarating...till i got stuck with a shovel.

      As to the paranormal...who the F*** knows? If i can believe in an all powerful, all knowing, all present, supernatural being as the creator and master architect of the 'uni' then shitze.....Gaz man; i can believe in anything whether i've seen it or not.

      Besides the Comanche ghosts down in Dura talk to me all the time....their latest complaint being that the tobacco gifts have run out and i'd better bring some gawdamn tiswwin when i go see em in the spring.

      best on ya brother

      CV

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      • #4
        I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on it. I suppose it could be, but who knows. Scariest thing I've seen is Lugosi's Dracula and some of Hitchcock's work. Its the fright that works the mind rather than the gore that truly disturbs us.

        Maybe that is why so much attention is paid to the paranormal.

        My 2 spendolas.
        Dennis
        If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

        Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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        • #5
          You would be surprised at wome of the 'old world' customs...

          Suicides were often buried at a crossroads. The reasoning behind it being that when their 'ghost' or 'spirit' arose, it would not be able to choose which road to take and so be doomed to haunt only that place!

          Gaz

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis View Post
            Shitze......Gaz ole son.... I'm too much of a multi-ethnic mut to NOT believe in the wierd and unusual...i blame the Nuns first cuz them and my Ma got me to believing in the wine into blood thing years ago.

            Then was the time... i was about 9 or 10 and saw Lugosi's performance as the Vampire King....man i was so gawdamn scared i went and saw the favorite Uncle, who incedently was nipping boubon on the back porch...he immediately advised me to go sharpen up some of them engineer stakes we had in the barn and locate my grandpa's 3lb sledge. GOOD Man my Uncle.

            Now with all that and my 'paper route bag' filled with the aforementioned and several stolen pieces of garlicfrom my great aunt Lupia....i was set.

            Spent most of week out on the llano at night looking for them heathen 'mofos'.... but alas was recalled to shovel cowshit in the pens.

            Hence my days as a vampire hunter were brief but ntl exhilarating...till i got stuck with a shovel.

            As to the paranormal...who the F*** knows? If i can believe in an all powerful, all knowing, all present, supernatural being as the creator and master architect of the 'uni' then shitze.....Gaz man; i can believe in anything whether i've seen it or not.

            Besides the Comanche ghosts down in Dura talk to me all the time....their latest complaint being that the tobacco gifts have run out and i'd better bring some gawdamn tiswwin when i go see em in the spring.

            best on ya brother

            CV
            Supersticious or what!

            When i was around that age in Islington, we had to occasionally walk past Highgate Cemetary on our way to Hampstead Heath. One night for a dare we went in (the railings were and still are falling down) after dark. Very soon after we were running like crazy towards home, even though i didnt personally see anything!

            Later that week the Islington Gazette reported graves had been desecrated by satanists!. Good job we ran!

            Bela Lugosi had you sobbing?... that happened to me when i saw his last movie!

            Native American ghosts...

            Tell us more!

            Gaz

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            • #7
              I grew up in a place which translated from Gaelic means 'field of the boggel' however I don't recall anything ever being remotely spooky about it. Though there was a ruined castle and some standing stones nearby....
              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by allsirgarnet View Post
                You would be surprised at wome of the 'old world' customs...

                Suicides were often buried at a crossroads. The reasoning behind it being that when their 'ghost' or 'spirit' arose, it would not be able to choose which road to take and so be doomed to haunt only that place!

                Gaz
                Yup. Suicides were also buried with a stake through their heart. People thought to be vampires had their heads cut off and their mouth's filled with garlic. Their heart's were also removed and destroyed by fire.
                "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Native American ghosts...

                  Depends on the tribe and clan within GAZ man. Most, to include most famously the Apache and their cousins the Navajo, wont even breach the subject, and if they do it's with a great reverence for the spirits of their ancestors near and far gone.

                  While the incident i cited above was true i have also been in the Dura many times not just to visit but to console the dead Comanche brethern...On occassion especialy when the storms are in you hear a very high keening...no doubt the wind ya say? whistling in and out of the canyons? possibly... probably....

                  But i tell you it's more then that .....its them lads mourning for the 2000 plus horses that Mackenzie shot and as a result forced them onto the Anadarko and destroyed their way of life.

                  Sometimes i dream about them horses and them riding them.... sometimes i get drunk with the shadows on the backporch and listen to them tell me about raiding into Mexico.

                  Believe it or not.

                  best
                  CV

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                  • #10
                    Not seen a ghsot yet, belive in them. Scared of them
                    "The people never have the power, only the illusion of it. And here is the real secret: they don't want it. The responsibility is too great to bear. It's why they are so quick to fall in line as soon as someone else takes charge."
                    "

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis View Post
                      Native American ghosts...

                      Depends on the tribe and clan within GAZ man. Most, to include most famously the Apache and their cousins the Navajo, wont even breach the subject, and if they do it's with a great reverence for the spirits of their ancestors near and far gone.

                      While the incident i cited above was true i have also been in the Dura many times not just to visit but to console the dead Comanche brethern...On occassion especialy when the storms are in you hear a very high keening...no doubt the wind ya say? whistling in and out of the canyons? possibly... probably....

                      But i tell you it's more then that .....its them lads mourning for the 2000 plus horses that Mackenzie shot and as a result forced them onto the Anadarko and destroyed their way of life.

                      Sometimes i dream about them horses and them riding them.... sometimes i get drunk with the shadows on the backporch and listen to them tell me about raiding into Mexico.

                      Believe it or not.

                      best
                      CV
                      Yeah, Ranald was a bastard doing that to the Commanche, but it was the only way to get them forever onto the Reservation. And for the record, I do believe.
                      "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The problem is we (humans) see patterns everywhere. It's like if you've ever stared at a tiled floor and picked out faces. Our brains take the random blotches and form something we can understand (often faces as our minds are especially attuned to them).

                        Or similarly, from a personal example, it seems to be that I never miss when the clock says 9:41. Sometimes it feels like I pick out that exact time twice a day to randomly look at the clock. Really, I just happened to notice it once, and since then I notice that time more than any other because it's conscious in my mind. If I really wrote down every time I happened to look at it, it'd be completely typical.

                        Or when playing a card game and it seems like every time you play that Jack of Diamonds, Four of Spades you win. You're really just picking out a pattern where one doesn't exist (you remember the times you win with it, but not the times you lose, your mind drops the cases where it doesn't fit the "pattern" or at least makes excuses for them).

                        This isn't to say all such cases can be explained as such (for example, some can be explained as conscious hoaxes), but I'd be willing to bet a great deal of supposed ghosts and other things are caused by misinterpreted senses. That random wisp of fog that someone's brain pushes into the shape of a person, that trick of shadows that sees a monster, or that odd noise that the brain shapes into the sound of a word (another well documented effect - random noises are matched with patterns and seem to sound like words to the mind). And of course the classic example, if we're told a place is spooky/haunted, it seems we try to find the evidence to fit it while there (all the really spooky "haunted" places become reinforcing).
                        Last edited by Overseer; 28 Nov 07, 23:34.
                        “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

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                        • #13
                          One of my best friends, Jill, is big on Wicca and is a firm believer in spirits and the supernatural. I don't know much about it personally, but I've gone into the woods with her in hooded robes and candles. She makes scented oils with spells and sachets of aromatic woods and rose petals. She also makes a magical wine which I have to admit was quite good on the romantic front.
                          TTFN

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                          • #14
                            The only ghost which haunt me are of the heart.



                            However, what some people want to be reality they tend to find a way to make reality. What Kendoka Girl is referencing is only one example.



                            May the force be with you.

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                            • #15
                              It depends on whether or not you believe that legends and myths usually have some genesis in history, i.e., the Great Flood. If you do, then there are countless tales revolving around the Dark Arts, replete with Wizards and Warlocks, Magicians and Sorcerers, Alchemists and Necromancers, Ghosts and Sprits. Under the circumstances, I have to wonder what the beginnings of those legends really were.

                              Some things we know for fact:

                              1. Shamans, priests and medicine men of all types dominated cultures and societies, great and small, throughout history and survive to this day. We still believe in the omniscience, wisdom and divine abilities of religious priests, often without anything remotely resembling "proof", and one would not be wise to drive down to the Navaho Reservation at Four Corners and start bad-mouthing Navaho medicine men in the presence of Navaho Taditionalists. That would be "bad medicine" indeed - pun entirely intentional. Wouldn't want to walk into St. Peter's Basilica and bad-mouth God, either. Beliefs are powerful things...

                              2. In the Olden Tymes, kings had their appointed court wizards just as they had their appointed jesters - they were believers in the mystical and occult, as was Hitler thousands of years later. Times were different and the science behind occurences was unknown to most. But what could the various wizardly types actually do? According to legend, quite a bit.

                              3. Alchemists were real and alchemy went on for centuries. The search for the true Philosopher's Stone goes on in many ways even today. What would a Medieval person, even an educated one, think of our commonly accepted ability to turn oil and other basic ingredients into medicines, fabrics, plastics and the entired array of 21st century industrial products? What would electricity be to them? Would that not be magical indeed?

                              To the ignorant and unitiated, even the simplest chemical reaction must have seemed magical indeed, just as today teenaged boys are overwhelmed by the chemistry which allows a tiny drop of odorous liquid dabbed on a female to cause an instantaneous erection from up to fifty feet away! Petrhaps this particular reaction among older men became the basis for -Necromancy!

                              4. Necromancy is a scorned belief, unless you happen to be Christian or a believer in Voodoo. Christianity gave us a carpenter's son who raised the dead, and Voodoo gave us the concept of zombies. Frankly, having worked in Civil Service for a few years, I believe in zombies. I worked with a large number of them every day, although they only really came to life at quitting time! But if you were the only one with a watch, and you knew when it was four-thirty...

                              Imagine, though, that you had somehow learned some rudimentary CPR, added a little showmanship and sleight-of-hand, and publicly revived a heart attack victim in Ancient Times. What might the populace think of you? Before scoffing at this concept, remember that great advances in medicine and surgery were made thousands of years ago, and often attributed to even older and more ancient practitioners. We really know very little of what some of the Ancient cultures knew due to a paucity of surviving records, but we do have the myths and legends that hint at an underlying advanced knowledge, some of which we struggle to understand even to this day.

                              I keep an open mind about such things, believing that I just don't know enough about the Past to simply dismiss such things as "impossible", and remembering - of course - how many "impossible" things have come to pass already. Just imagine for one second that you are about to explain to a Medieval court about to sentence you to death by burning at the stake for heresy and Satanism that your obviously irrational statements about being able to talk to people clear across the world by some invisible sorcery are actually true. That sizzling sound is you, as soon as they stop laughing and trying to exorcise you.

                              As for ghosts? I have lived in several houses that were hosts to inexplicable supernatural occurances. I cannot explain them scientifically, but I experienced them and I find they are not easily written off. And let us not forget the documented fact of deja`vue, pretty hard to explain rationally but nonetheless very real. I have experienced that one too, in a recurrent series of dreams that later came to pass exactly as pre-visualized. How do I explain it? I can't, but I experienced it.

                              Do I believe in specific pseudo-mumbo jumbo explanations? No...but I do believe in something, or as the punchline from Men In Black goes...imagine what you'll know tomorrow.
                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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