Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Obama proposes raiding NASA to pay for education

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Obama proposes raiding NASA to pay for education

    http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2...pits-huma.html
    Obama Pits Human Space Exploration Against Education

    Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama released a new $18 billion education plan yesterday that he proposes to pay for by delaying the NASA Constellation program (to return humans to the moon) five years.

    ' "We're not going to have the engineers and the scientists to continue space exploration if we don't have kids who are able to read, write and compute," Obama said. '

    Space Exploration is becoming more of an issue in the 2008 presidential election. Hillary Clinton released her civil space policy on the 50th anniversary of Sputnik last month, promising to speed development of next generation crew exploration vehicles. Her release says:

    "Hillary is committed to a space exploration program that involves robust human spaceflight to complete the Space Station and later human missions, expanded robotic spaceflight probes of our solar system leading to future human exploration, and enhanced space science activities. She will speed development, testing, and deployment of next-generation launch and crew exploration vehicles to replace the aging Space Shuttle. "

    Obama's proposal to slip NASA's Constellation program to pay for education puts education and space in direct competition for tax dollars. Space Exploration historically has not competed with education for federal dollars because most educational programs are funded at the state level. The Department of Education and NASA are also traditionally in separate funding bills going through Congress and thus are not competing for the funds within a given appropriation bill.

    Given that that Space Shuttle is retiring in 2010 and there is already a four year gap before the Ares I vehicle will be ready to launch crews to Space Station, a five year delay of the Constellation program would leave the United States government without its own human launch capability for nearly ten years.

    Such a delay would result is a loss of capability as the workforce with the knowledge to build spacecraft will not be around when you want to hire them in 2020 and there will be few to train any students coming out of the education pipeline.

    Hillary did specifically acknowledge this national concern in her policy, stating:

    "And in pursuing next-generation programs, Hillary will capitalize on the expertise of the current Shuttle program workforce and will not allow a repeat of the “brain drain” that occurred between the Apollo and shuttle missions."

    According to a 2004 press release from Congress, there are three times as many scientists and engineers at NASA who are over 60 years old then are under 30 years old. It is unclear either group would be around 13 years from now to restart the program.

    Most of the veteran spacecraft builders will be retired by 2020. The youngest person to walk on the moon, Harrison Schmidt, will be 85 and the first man to walk on the moon, Neil Armstrong, will be 90.

  • #2
    Not unreasonable depending on what particular space related programs are going to be cut or deleted. I'd be more prone to agree with a lack of value mucking about on the moon than from near space programs.

    I most definitely don't see a need to find out whether or not Mars or anywhere else for that matter, ever had water on it.

    Here is one of the real rubs in Federal education programs:
    Space Exploration historically has not competed with education for federal dollars because most educational programs are funded at the state level.
    The Feds frequently mandate changes or establish new programs and do not dedicate funding for them. Thats why there is no competition. Nice guys those Feds!
    If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

    Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by D1J1 View Post
      Not unreasonable depending on what particular space related programs are going to be cut or deleted. I'd be more prone to agree with a lack of value mucking about on the moon than from near space programs.
      Did you even read what I posted?
      Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama released a new $18 billion education plan yesterday that he proposes to pay for by delaying the NASA Constellation program (to return humans to the moon) five years.

      ...

      Obama's proposal to slip NASA's Constellation program to pay for education puts education and space in direct competition for tax dollars. Space Exploration historically has not competed with education for federal dollars because most educational programs are funded at the state level. The Department of Education and NASA are also traditionally in separate funding bills going through Congress and thus are not competing for the funds within a given appropriation bill.

      Given that that Space Shuttle is retiring in 2010 and there is already a four year gap before the Ares I vehicle will be ready to launch crews to Space Station, a five year delay of the Constellation program would leave the United States government without its own human launch capability for nearly ten years.
      Originally posted by D1J1 View Post
      I most definitely don't see a need to find out whether or not Mars or anywhere else for that matter, ever had water on it.
      Yeah, Never mind the obvious uses for solar power, mining, medical/technological advances and so on.

      Comment


      • #4
        The United States spends more money per student on education than any other country in the world. The problem isn't money and throwing more at will change nothing.

        Every campaign we here the same stories about problems in education and the answer given is always the same, more money. So we throw more money at the problem and Little Johnny still can't read.

        Maybe it is time to realize that it is not a money problem.
        Last edited by Miss Saigon; 25 Nov 07, 18:13.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yep, I read what you posted. Sorry if I stretched it into my bias against deep space projects. You will of course note by reading my post that I did not exclude the value of near space programs.

          I agree Miss Siagon that the only problem in education isn't money. Certainly some money is wasted, as is SOP in nearly every government program or private enterprise.
          If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

          Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

          Comment


          • #6
            Little Johnny isn't going to get excited about science again unless we do something like the Constellation project. Obama is a jackhole.

            Comment


            • #7
              Well I just saw on the news that staff at schools can travel at the taxpayers expense. Maybe we could drop that and use that money for the students instead of taking money away from the Space Program

              Obama did you ever think of that?
              "You can tell a lot about a fella's character by whether he picks out all of one color or just grabs a handful." -explaining why Reagan liked to have a jar of jelly beans on hand for important meetings

              CO for 1st S.INC Shock Security Troop

              Comment


              • #8
                Are you shitti*ng me?

                'Bro O' isn't concerned with the perks afforded to a major voting block of the libsecprogs such as he.

                Oh no not that.

                best
                CV

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by No_Nickname View Post
                  Well I just saw on the news that staff at schools can travel at the taxpayers expense. Maybe we could drop that and use that money for the students instead of taking money away from the Space Program

                  Obama did you ever think of that?
                  Depends on the purpose of the travel. I was sent by my school to a meeting earlier this year. Since they requested it, shouldn't they pay the cost of my attending?

                  Likewise, I belong to a number of other groups whose meetings I attend and travel to historic sites on days designated for training in the school year. I do that of my own free will and at my own expense.

                  Regards,
                  Dennis
                  If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

                  Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Miss.Saigon View Post
                    Maybe it is time to realize that it is not a money problem.
                    Nope. It's a drug and pre-marital sex problem!



                    I swear, the amount of time and money they spent on telling us kids how bad drinking and driving was (or how deadly marijuana was) could have been spent on actually educating us. Those other things sound like stuff parents could have taken care of.

                    But instead, the school decided to treat us like idiots. Score one for public education!



                    Good find, Redstar.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      But instead, the school decided to treat us like idiots. Score one for public education!

                      yupper. but otoh the days of the shop teacher, who was also the wrestling coach, slapping the hyena sh*t outta someone on occassion, for malfeasance..are gone forever....sad really. Saved a lot of good men for the Cav and the crotch he did.

                      best
                      CV

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by daemonofdecay View Post
                        Nope. It's a drug and pre-marital sex problem!



                        I swear, the amount of time and money they spent on telling us kids how bad drinking and driving was (or how deadly marijuana was) could have been spent on actually educating us. Those other things sound like stuff parents could have taken care of.

                        But instead, the school decided to treat us like idiots. Score one for public education!


                        You raise an excellent point and one that I think teachers would support almost unanimously. I wish I didn't have to spend time with all the ancillary tasks that must be done but are abrogated at home/by parents!
                        If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

                        Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Obama is an idiot.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Martok View Post
                            Obama is an idiot.
                            An idiot? No.

                            I disagree with him politically (very strongly), but he is not an idiot.

                            He's not a black Dubya, thats for sure.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Miss.Saigon View Post
                              The United States spends more money per student on education than any other country in the world. The problem isn't money and throwing more at will change nothing.

                              Every campaign we here the same stories about problems in education and the answer given is always the same, more money. So we throw more money at the problem and Little Johnny still can't read.

                              Maybe it is time to realize that it is not a money problem.

                              I couldn't agree more.
                              Delegate, MN GOP.

                              PATRIA SI, COMUNISMO NO

                              http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...?id=1156276727

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X