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  • #31
    Isn't it there a ceremonial drum that the Sami shamans used?
    The safest place in Korea was behind a platoon of Marines. Lord how they could fight! - MGEN Frank Lowe, U.S. Army.
    ----
    We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand - N.Y.

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    • #32
      Never knew Errki was a Sami. I was lucky enough to spend ten days in a log cabin around Rovaniemi and Kukasjarvi in Finland. I met some Sami people and although we couldn't communicate verbally, they were great guys. I have a few books around here and a great knife collection that my Dad started. How's the reindeer wrangling?
      The truth? You can't handle the truth! No truth handler you! I deride your truth handling abilities!
      Sideshow Bob.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Erkki View Post
        Yes moose and birds, personally I only hunt bird.
        Gotta ask what you use for weapons on the moose. Are the birds a variety of Partridge? You mentioned that your parents speak a limited Sami, are your Grandparents better able to converse in the language?

        A few questions about nothing
        Are the roads paved?

        I worked for a butcher for a while, the laws here are also strict about commercial cutting of meat. Do you have a "shop" to prepare the meat?

        How do you kill the animals? Strange, but there are many cultural approaches to the question.

        As this is a military site, are you aware of any Sami contributions to WWII?

        Said it before, you are a focal point for an amazing thread.

        Many thanks.
        My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

        Comment


        • #34
          On the moose I can say that the most widely used rifle caliber here in Sweden for Moose hunting is 6.5 x 55mm Swedish Mauser, Plenty of old farts that got their ammo from surplus army stores n' even walked away with ammo from the army back in the day way back so it have become an traditional rifle caliber for Moose here in Sweden. Other common calibers for Moose here in Sweden is .30-06 Springfield, .308 Winchester n' 8 x 57mmJS

          What Erkki is using I don't know but it could very well be one of the above listed ones...
          The safest place in Korea was behind a platoon of Marines. Lord how they could fight! - MGEN Frank Lowe, U.S. Army.
          ----
          We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand - N.Y.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by holly6 View Post
            Gotta ask what you use for weapons on the moose. Are the birds a variety of Partridge? You mentioned that your parents speak a limited Sami, are your Grandparents better able to converse in the language?
            No they is not.
            A few questions about nothing
            Are the roads paved?
            Some of them.

            I worked for a butcher for a while, the laws here are also strict about commercial cutting of meat. Do you have a "shop" to prepare the meat?
            Yes we have.

            How do you kill the animals? Strange, but there are many cultural approaches to the question.
            We shot them.

            As this is a military site, are you aware of any Sami contributions to WWII?
            Some Sámi helped some refuges over the border by hiding them in their reindeer flocks and some probably served in the Finnish army.

            Said it before, you are a focal point for an amazing thread.

            Many thanks
            I am just happy that I can help.
            “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

            Max Sterner

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            • #36
              Originally posted by McCoy View Post
              Isn't it there a ceremonial drum that the Sami shamans used?
              Hard to say if it is an instrument or a magical thing. Most of them was however destroyed by Swedish priests.
              “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

              Max Sterner

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              • #37
                It is Thanksgiving here in the USA today. Happy Thanksgiving Erik

                This is something like a Harvest festival. Do you have a Harvest Festival ?
                Last edited by Miss Saigon; 22 Nov 07, 13:37.

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                • #38
                  We both use 30-06 and 6.5x55 and even 9.3.
                  “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

                  Max Sterner

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Erkki View Post
                    Hard to say if it is an instrument or a magical thing. Most of them was however destroyed by Swedish priests.
                    Right! The drums was banned back in the day n' most of 'em destroyed. I think that the Swedish priests nearly managed to destroy most of the Sami culture when the brought Christianity to the Sami.
                    The safest place in Korea was behind a platoon of Marines. Lord how they could fight! - MGEN Frank Lowe, U.S. Army.
                    ----
                    We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand - N.Y.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Miss.Saigon View Post
                      It is Thanksgiving here in the USA today. Happy Thanksgiving Erik

                      This is something like a Harvest festival. Do you have a Harvest Festival ?
                      Not that I can recall at the moment .

                      To all : My INTERNET connection is quite bad at the moment and I can only use the net between 7pm-7am on work days. That means that I might not will be able to reply so quick. Hopefully the connection will improve in the weekend when I can use the INTERNET all day long.
                      “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

                      Max Sterner

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        The Swedish state did not officially recognize the Sami as an indigenous people until 1977. In 1998, the former Minister for Agriculture and Sami Affairs, Annika Åhnberg, on behalf of the Government, asked for the Sami's forgiveness for the way the state had treated them through history.

                        The first Reindeer Grazing Act was adopted by the Swedish Parliament in 1886. This was a special piece of legislation that required the definition of the Sami people's rights. The notion of the nomadic Sami as a 'real' Sami meant that civilisation and reindeer herding could not be united. The nomads therefore had to be distinguished from the rest of the population in order to preserve the genuine reindeer herding culture. Under the slogan 'Lapps must be Lapps', the school system was reorganised. The children of nomadic Sami were separated from other children, even from children who were Samis but not nomads (the Nomad School Reform of 1913), and had to attend the Nomadic School. The Sami who had settled were not counted as `real' Sami, and were excluded from the special entitlements enshrined in the Reindeer Grazing Act. From the 1930s onwards, more Sami were forced to abandon reindeer herding, primarily due to forcible relocation and years of famine. These were also excluded from the legislation and were to be actively assimilated into Swedish society.

                        Rationalisation of reindeer herding
                        After the Second World War, the state focused on the need to rationalise reindeer herding. Reindeer herding was seen as an under-developed business that had to be modernised. The altered view of reindeer husbandry meant that it was just one of many trades, and that reindeer herding was an occupation. In order to justify separate legislation for the Sami, it was stated at the end of the 1950s that reindeer herding was a precondition for Sami culture and that special measures were required to preserve the Sami culture, i.e. reindeer husbandry. This meant that non-reindeer herders would continue to be excluded, and were not counted as bearers of Sami culture.

                        New legislation
                        New, modernised reindeer legislation was adopted in 1971. With the economic and political focus on reindeer husbandry, a system of rights was established that was almost identical to the previous systems from 1886, 1898 and 1928, although with a more democratic wording. It is still the state that establishes clear boundaries and defines who can and cannot claim special entitlements.

                        Indigenous people and bearers of culture
                        Since the end of the 1970s, the state has spoken of the Sami as an indigenous people and a national minority. This is partly due to demands being stipulated by strong immigrant groups, which means that the state cannot neglect the demands of the Sami. Reindeer husbandry is described as a bearer of culture and a social interest that has to be safeguarded. 'Sami rights' are discussed and several investigations have been carried out. Origin, relation to the Sami language and a sense of allegiance, instead of reindeer herding, are now cited as important factors for defining who is a Sami. Various forms of new legislation in new areas were added in the 1990s, such as a Sami Parliament Act and a special Minority Languages Act.

                        No change
                        Despite the fact that a new notion of 'Saminess' has been introduced, the Swedish legislation has hardly changed. The state control over reindeer husbandry remains in place, and the format of the Sami Parliament is tightly controlled by the Sami Parliament Act. The Sami Parliament became both a publicly elected body and an authority that is controlled by the Swedish Government. The day before the Sami Parliament was inaugurated, the hunting of small game was permitted in the mountains, despite the objections of the samebys. The Sami still have no political representation in the Swedish Parliament. The Swedish state has still not yet ratified ILO Convention 169 regarding the rights of indigenous peoples. The Government says it wants to clarify all the consequences before taking a decision. As a result, the Sami are still waiting.

                        Source: http://www.eng.samer.se/servlet/GetDoc?meta_id=1001
                        When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
                        Jimi Hendrix

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by M.Joensen View Post
                          The Swedish state did not officially recognize the Sami as an indigenous people until 1977. In 1998, the former Minister for Agriculture and Sami Affairs, Annika Åhnberg, on behalf of the Government, asked for the Sami's forgiveness for the way the state had treated them through history.

                          The first Reindeer Grazing Act was adopted by the Swedish Parliament in 1886. This was a special piece of legislation that required the definition of the Sami people's rights. The notion of the nomadic Sami as a 'real' Sami meant that civilisation and reindeer herding could not be united. The nomads therefore had to be distinguished from the rest of the population in order to preserve the genuine reindeer herding culture. Under the slogan 'Lapps must be Lapps', the school system was reorganised. The children of nomadic Sami were separated from other children, even from children who were Samis but not nomads (the Nomad School Reform of 1913), and had to attend the Nomadic School. The Sami who had settled were not counted as `real' Sami, and were excluded from the special entitlements enshrined in the Reindeer Grazing Act. From the 1930s onwards, more Sami were forced to abandon reindeer herding, primarily due to forcible relocation and years of famine. These were also excluded from the legislation and were to be actively assimilated into Swedish society.

                          Rationalisation of reindeer herding
                          After the Second World War, the state focused on the need to rationalise reindeer herding. Reindeer herding was seen as an under-developed business that had to be modernised. The altered view of reindeer husbandry meant that it was just one of many trades, and that reindeer herding was an occupation. In order to justify separate legislation for the Sami, it was stated at the end of the 1950s that reindeer herding was a precondition for Sami culture and that special measures were required to preserve the Sami culture, i.e. reindeer husbandry. This meant that non-reindeer herders would continue to be excluded, and were not counted as bearers of Sami culture.

                          New legislation
                          New, modernised reindeer legislation was adopted in 1971. With the economic and political focus on reindeer husbandry, a system of rights was established that was almost identical to the previous systems from 1886, 1898 and 1928, although with a more democratic wording. It is still the state that establishes clear boundaries and defines who can and cannot claim special entitlements.

                          Indigenous people and bearers of culture
                          Since the end of the 1970s, the state has spoken of the Sami as an indigenous people and a national minority. This is partly due to demands being stipulated by strong immigrant groups, which means that the state cannot neglect the demands of the Sami. Reindeer husbandry is described as a bearer of culture and a social interest that has to be safeguarded. 'Sami rights' are discussed and several investigations have been carried out. Origin, relation to the Sami language and a sense of allegiance, instead of reindeer herding, are now cited as important factors for defining who is a Sami. Various forms of new legislation in new areas were added in the 1990s, such as a Sami Parliament Act and a special Minority Languages Act.

                          No change
                          Despite the fact that a new notion of 'Saminess' has been introduced, the Swedish legislation has hardly changed. The state control over reindeer husbandry remains in place, and the format of the Sami Parliament is tightly controlled by the Sami Parliament Act. The Sami Parliament became both a publicly elected body and an authority that is controlled by the Swedish Government. The day before the Sami Parliament was inaugurated, the hunting of small game was permitted in the mountains, despite the objections of the samebys. The Sami still have no political representation in the Swedish Parliament. The Swedish state has still not yet ratified ILO Convention 169 regarding the rights of indigenous peoples. The Government says it wants to clarify all the consequences before taking a decision. As a result, the Sami are still waiting.

                          Source: http://www.eng.samer.se/servlet/GetDoc?meta_id=1001
                          Lot's of great information here. This will take some time to digest. If I'm understanding this post correctly, there seems to be a parallel to some US actions against the normadic plains tribes.

                          Would you have any information on the Sami village of Sierri (several similar spellings)?

                          Have you any ideas on how best we can continue to search for antropological evidence to recreate Erik's traditional village costumes?

                          We are just getting started on this quest, but would appreciate any ideas that might help us with shortcuts.

                          Thanks again for the post,
                          Regards,
                          Hal
                          My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            This might be fun:
                            Let us call this person " Max" to avoid any problems with the law.

                            Max was racing a little with one of our reindeer.
                            Racing is maybe the wrong word, Max was driving a snowmobile.
                            Even if Max drove the snowmobile as fast as I could the reindeer managed to run faster.
                            The top speed of the snowmobile is around 50-60 km/h.
                            The reindeer is only a little over a half year old.
                            I think that with a little training the reindeer could beat the speed record of the gepard........
                            “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

                            Max Sterner

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I would say that this is a very difficult quest to solve

                              Its common to split the Sami language into 10 dialects: Southsami, Umesami, Pitesami, Lulesami, Northsami, Enaresami, Skoltesami, Akkalasami, Kildinsami and Tersami.
                              There is great varitions in the costumes in the various districts, and the variation follows to a certain extend the Sami dialect.

                              But its the bands, plaits and the tin art (the decoration) on the costume that can indicate the local belonging, which family you belong to, if you are married/unmarried etc.
                              Some Kolts are reconstructions, others have developed through time and followed the tradition, but at the sama time "swung" with fashion. Reconstruction has been, and still is an important link in the peoples search for theire Sami identity.
                              When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
                              Jimi Hendrix

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Hi Erkki
                                On a norwegian site I read about the "Gällivare costume"
                                What is "Gällivare"; I know it's somewhere near you, but I don't know what it is....is it a village, a district or....
                                When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
                                Jimi Hendrix

                                Comment

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