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  • Jonestown

    I meant to post this earlier, but it slipped my mind.

    The other evening a drama documentary about the Jonestown massacre was on UK TV. It featured interviews with some of the survivors and reconstruction of events. I knew little about the subject and so it was very informative. Before i get to my point, if members want to discuss Jonestown or similar themes in this thread, please go ahead.

    To the point...

    From what i gathered in the programme, the Jonestown compound was fairly isolated. In general terms it also seemed that the decision regarding mass suicide was a spur of the moment thing, brought about i think the visit of an outside group. Maybe someone could fill in the details, but thats basically as i saw it. What actually happened comes from i assume both the survivors and the subsequent investigation.

    Phew...

    Now, one thing did strike me as very odd, assuming that is the programme was correct. It stated and even showed that one of the main poisons used was POTASSIUM CYANIDE or something very similar and photos clearly show (as did the TV) it came in 2 1/2 litre glass bottles.

    I worked for 20 years as a chemist in a lab and the above presents a problem. The chemical as stated above is for industrial or analytical use and its supply is carefully monitored. It would be available to any 'company' but not 'off the shelf', and certainly not from any retail outlet or at short notice. This is in addition to the safety concerns and its bulk.

    OK...

    Can you see my point. Just where did these chemicals come from to enable this virtually instant mass suicide?. The chemical in question has no 'civilian' applications and had no reason to be anywhere near Jonestown.

    This to me suggests premeditation, and if correct would i think would have taken quite a while to get ready.

    It may be a 'small point', but i can tell you, 2 1/2 litre bottles of Potassium Cyanide just dont grow on trees.

    Verification...

    Can anyone clear up if the programme was accurate about the chemicals. If yes then was it planned way in advance. What are your thoughts?

    If its not as the TV stated, what do you think of the Jonestown events anyway.

    What i found incredible was that people 'sacrificed' (cant think of a better phrase) their children for the nut in charge!

    thanks

    Gaz

  • #2
    You appear concerned about the pre meditated aspect.

    I was around when this news item first appears. Jim Jones was a pre meditated nutcase. I am comfortable with the idea he had the end in sight all along.

    They don't call them suicide cults for nothing.
    Life is change. Built models for decades.
    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
    I didn't for a long time either.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Paul Maud'dib View Post
      You appear concerned about the pre meditated aspect.

      I was around when this news item first appears. Jim Jones was a pre meditated nutcase. I am comfortable with the idea he had the end in sight all along.

      They don't call them suicide cults for nothing.
      My thoughts too...

      You simply dont have poisons like than laying around.

      If thats the case though and he considered the end would inevitably come, why didnt his 'people' come to realise it?

      I ask because from the footage ive seen of him, hes less the inspiration and more the ranting loon! Why would you follow someone like that.


      Info...

      Ive seen an accident involving the named chemical and believe me, those peoples last few minutes were certainly no peaceful assent into paradise.

      Gaz

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      • #4
        Originally posted by allsirgarnet View Post
        Phew...

        Now, one thing did strike me as very odd, assuming that is the programme was correct. It stated and even showed that one of the main poisons used was POTASSIUM CYANIDE or something very similar and photos clearly show (as did the TV) it came in 2 1/2 litre glass bottles.

        I worked for 20 years as a chemist in a lab and the above presents a problem. The chemical as stated above is for industrial or analytical use and its supply is carefully monitored. It would be available to any 'company' but not 'off the shelf', and certainly not from any retail outlet or at short notice. This is in addition to the safety concerns and its bulk.

        Gaz
        Gives you a thought about the availability of "weapons grade" plutonium doesn't it.
        My Avatar: Ivan W. Henderson Gunner/navigator B-25-26. 117 combat missions. Both Theaters. 11 confirmed kills. DSC.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Paul Maud'dib View Post
          You appear concerned about the pre meditated aspect.

          I was around when this news item first appears. Jim Jones was a pre meditated nutcase. I am comfortable with the idea he had the end in sight all along.

          They don't call them suicide cults for nothing.
          Concur with Paul ...Jones was gawdamn idijit surrounded by gawdamn idjits....now bunches and bunches are DEAD gawdamn idjits.....nothing else needs be said.

          best
          CV

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          • #6
            "Why would you follow someone like that."

            I will reference my fav author Terry Goodkind for matters such as this.

            "People are stupid"

            Some authors sure know how to hit something dead on occasionally .
            Life is change. Built models for decades.
            Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
            I didn't for a long time either.

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            • #7
              I take it that somethuing like that couldn't be made by someone with a tad bit of chemical knowledge?
              Delegate, MN GOP.

              PATRIA SI, COMUNISMO NO

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SGT Long View Post
                I take it that somethuing like that couldn't be made by someone with a tad bit of chemical knowledge?
                Rob...

                Sorry ive got to this late, been busy

                The main problem with Potassium Cyanide is its volatility in both production and use.

                Long LONG ago i worked in London for a company of analytical chemists (20 years). Soon after i joined someone was accidentally killed while using this chemical. A simple human error. A young chemist was analyzing Zinc samples and after the organic separation (using the named chemical) threw the waste liquor down the sink rather than into the secure waste containers for special disposal. They then went for a teabreak. While they were away, another chemist entered the lab and disposed of their waste liquor from lead analysis, which was mainly Hydrochloric acid based. This reacted in the sink pipes with the alkaline Zinc liquor releasing HYDROGEN CYANIDE gas. Presumably the latter chemist (sadly) never smelt the almond smell that may have saved him. He was found dead by the chemists returning from their teabreak.

                As to the attack mate, from the few photos ive seen the bottles of chemical look identical to those i was using in the 1980's.

                Macabre...

                The only similar instance i 'experienced' as a chemist was related to me by a friend in the waste disposal firm we used, Redland Pearl. They had a driver killed by Hydrogen Sulphide poisoning (rotten eggs smell we all know). He emptied his tanker containing Ammonium Sulphide liquor into an 'acid' evaporation pit by mistake. They found him when the plant was closing hours later. The large amounts of Hydrogen Sulphide gas had oxidized his skin and he was jet black in colour. He died from suffocation, probably without knowing it. Large volumes of the gas (although smelling of rotten eggs) seemingly negate the sense of smell immediately (probably linked to the pallette). His newspaper was still in his hands, though the print had oxidized to green from black!

                Gaz

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