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  • Slug got me thinking

    Slug's thread about the banning of certain people as avatars has brought to mind something that has bothered me in the modeling/toy industry. That is the industry's, apparently self imposed, ban on the use of the swastika on WW2 airplanes and such. If I want to build a Bf-109, or buy a prebuilt one, why do I have to buy/build something historically innacurate? I know you can buy decal sheets seperately but why should I have to? Isn't the 109, or the Ju-87 just as much a symbol of Nazi Germany as the swastika (more people were killed by German airplanes than swastikas as far as I can tell). Any of you modelers have any input?
    "Every man should be his own Guru; every woman her own Gurette" ...Ed Abbey

  • #2
    We've talked this one to death over in the modelling section. It seems that swastikas are left out of kits or at best, printed in fragments on the decal sheets so that the kits can be marketed and sold in Germany where the swastika is banned as a symbol. It's always annoyed me too but now that I understand why, it makes the pill easier to swallow as a predominantly Luftwaffe modeller.
    Peace Wustenfuchs.
    The truth? You can't handle the truth! No truth handler you! I deride your truth handling abilities!
    Sideshow Bob.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Wustenfuchs
      Slug got me thinking
      On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson

      ACG History Today

      BoRG

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Admiral View Post

        "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
        Ernest Hemingway.

        "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
        Mark Twain.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Admiral View Post

          At least it wasn't SkyPilot or our dwarf consulting judge that got me thinking! That would be scarey indeed. Come to think of it, I do seem to do a bit of head scratching after reading their posts (personally, I really like their posts, however confusing they may be!)
          "Every man should be his own Guru; every woman her own Gurette" ...Ed Abbey

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Geek44 View Post
            We've talked this one to death over in the modelling section. It seems that swastikas are left out of kits or at best, printed in fragments on the decal sheets so that the kits can be marketed and sold in Germany where the swastika is banned as a symbol. It's always annoyed me too but now that I understand why, it makes the pill easier to swallow as a predominantly Luftwaffe modeller.
            Peace Wustenfuchs.
            Yup, it's all about the almighty dollar. Over on the Paradox forum you can't even include a swastika in a picture you post. They are banned from the entire forum.
            If you can't set a good example, be a glaring warning.

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            • #7
              Hey... Congrats, General AB!

              On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson

              ACG History Today

              BoRG

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              • #8
                Wow, yes congratulations Achtung baby!
                "Every man should be his own Guru; every woman her own Gurette" ...Ed Abbey

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                • #9
                  General AB. Has a nice ring to it!
                  ACG QUOTE OF THE WEEK:
                  ¿Cualquier persona fija en el nude? Slug

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                  • #10
                    Geez... thanks for the kind words,
                    but this isn't my thread, LOL!!!

                    Sorry for the thread drift Wustenfuchs
                    at least we have fun in ACG eh! :-)
                    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                    Ernest Hemingway.

                    "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
                    Mark Twain.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Achtung baby View Post
                      Geez... thanks for the kind words,
                      but this isn't my thread, LOL!!!

                      Sorry for the thread drift Wustenfuchs
                      at least we have fun in ACG eh! :-)
                      No problem! Would rather congratulate a friend than worry about missing swastikas!!
                      "Every man should be his own Guru; every woman her own Gurette" ...Ed Abbey

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                      • #12
                        Avatars are a personal thing but we should be still concerned or even weary of someone who has a KZ scene, Nanking executions or other rather loathsome acts portrayed in their Personal Flag. This should also include symbols as well.

                        As for swastikas being banned on models, accept for the German Law Ban, I see no problem showing them. It kind of sad to see models at German model shows with the proper markings taped over ruining the whole effect.
                        Eternal War(gaming) Armoured Struggle Car Bob

                        History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis.
                        Lazarus Long

                        Draw the blinds on yesterday and it's all so much scarier....
                        David Bowie

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                        • #13
                          As with all laws, logic is not required.

                          A swastika on a model is hardly the same as a skin head punk waving a nazi flag around on the street is it. A swastika on an internet forum is also in my view being a bit fussy.

                          But heaven forbid people should be required to think out laws carefully. Better to just make them anal and be safe.

                          Fortunately my life isn't marred by an overriding need to have a historically accurate model at all costs, or a wargame with absolutely correct icons.

                          It might make Germany look silly in their extremes, but I would rather they took remembering to extreme, than not remembering to extremes.
                          Life is change. Built models for decades.
                          Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
                          I didn't for a long time either.

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                          • #14
                            What is the next step in swastika correctness?

                            Will school history textbooks be required to eliminate any showing of a swastika? Will photos be eliminated or doctored? Didn't Stalin do that?

                            What after that?

                            Historic publications, documentaries, movies, and art would be eliminated or altered?

                            Hindus and Buddists have to surrender one of their icons too because it appears to be similar to the swastika?

                            Is common sense gone? It is legal to march in hoods and sheets, but you can't buy a model with a historically correct decal.
                            Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                            Prayers.

                            BoRG

                            http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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                            • #15
                              I agree with you whole-heartedly, especially in view of the industry's built-in double standard.

                              Japanese models come with the Rising Sun emblem, an emblem of dishonor and barbaric savagery towards millons of people. Soviet models also come with a national symbol associated with large-scale murder and savagery on an incredible scale, followed by the imprisonment of a large part of the world for over half-a-century. The history of Italy fares little better. To condemn the swastika requires a similar action against those other nations as well.

                              Lastly, in a modelling industry that depends on historical accuracy for its living, there is no room for such political manuevering. A model is either authentic, which means the appropriate and accurate national symbology, or it isn't.
                              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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