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  • Isn't it time we start calling a spade a spade?

    How long is this charade going to go on? How long is the world going to go on pretending that the Western world is not at a defacto state of war with militant Islam?

    Militant Muslims blew up two US embassies killing hundreds and we are told that this was the work of "fanatics," not mainstream Muslims.

    Militant Muslims parked a truck loaded with explosives in front of a US military barracks in Saudi Arabia killing scores of unsuspecting servicemen. Saudi diplomats pronounced that this was the work of a "fringe" movement and that the perpetrators would be dealt with harshly. Since that time the government of Saudi Arabia has consistently blocked and impeded every US attempt to get to the bottom of the incident and find out who really was behind the attack.

    Last year militant Muslims upped the ante and killed over 3,000 civilians. It didn't happen in Yemen, Kuwait, or the west Bank, but right here in America. This time the press did call the terrorists terrorists, but quickly fell over themselves to assure everyone that this was the work of "madman," not militant Islam.

    Many Europeans have clamored over the language used by Americans toward militant Muslims and have accused America of being too heavy handed and unfair toward the attackers. These same critics suddenly seem to have lost their voice since scores of Australians were butchered in a night club bombing in Bali. The silence is thunderous.

    The French have also softened their rhetoric since one of their own supertankers was blown open last month in Yemen killing a dozen crewman and dumping thousands of gallons of crude oil into the sea.

    Militant Kuwaiti Muslims don't want to be left out of the game so a few of them decided to shoot up US marines on a training exercise. One marine was killed along with the assailants. Again, Kuwaiti officials were quick to insist that Islam had no part in this attack and that American forces are welcome there. How very charming.

    And now John Williams, excuse me, John Allen Muhammad, an American citizen with al Qaeda leanings has killed 10 innocent people with a rifle. The sniper and his 17 year old terrorist accomplice practically brought life in our nation's capital to a standstill before being apprehended. The media refuses to call him by his Muslim name - he converted 17 years ago - instead calling him by a name he no longer answers to.

    John Allen Muhammad is a terrorist. He is a Muslim. He has killed Americans. It's time we start calling a spade a spade.
    Editor-in-Chief
    GameSquad.com

  • #2
    by Ann Coulter
    http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/103002e.htm

    AFTER ALL THE speculation about the sniper terrorizing Maryland and Virginia, at last we have some cold hard facts. He is a Muslim. He converted to Islam 17 years ago. He changed his name to John Muhammad. He belonged to Louis Farrakhan's Nation of Islam. He cheered the terrorist attack of Sept. 11. He registered his getaway vehicle with the DMV on the anniversary of Sept. 11 writing down the time of registration as 8:52 a.m.

    Naturally, therefore, the mainstream media have decided the crucial, salient fact about sniper John Muhammad is that he is a Gulf War veteran. Thus, the New York times described the snipers as: "John Allen Muhammad, 41, a Gulf War veteran, and John Lee Malvo, 17, a Jamaican."

    They are now hot on the trail of whether Osama bin Laden ever served with the U.S. military in the Gulf War.

    To review recent events, last year, 19 Muslims slaughtered thousands of Americans on U.S. soil. Since then, one Muslim tried to blow up a U.S. commercial jet with a shoe bomb and another Muslim shot up Los Angeles airport. The Religion of Peace has also been active abroad, decapitating an American journalist and blowing up a French tanker. In the last few weeks alone, Muslims bombed a nightclub in Bali and were narrowly prevented from slaughtering hundreds of theater-goers in Moscow.

    Inasmuch as the nation is at war with Islamic terrorists, you might think it would be of passing interest that the sniper is a Muslim. But you need a New York Times decoder ring to figure out that GULF WAR VETERAN John Muhammad is a Muslim. The main clue is the Times' repeated insistence that Islam had absolutely nothing to do with the shootings.

    Wrestling with the freakish development that a practitioner of the Religion of Peace is a killer, the Times has even rushed to print with the completely unsubstantiated speculation that John Muhammad had recently rejected Islam. Experts explained that a "rapid and bizarre change in religious beliefs" is common among "serial killers." One doctor said a change in religious beliefs before committing violent crimes is "a fairly well-known phenomenon in clinical psychiatry," adding that he "was not diagnosing Mr. Muhammad's condition."

    His condition? He's a Muslim. That's his condition and his diagnosis. It may be time to update the DSM-IV by adding "Jihad Impulse-Control Disorder" to its index of official diagnoses.

    In addition to copious articles intimating that John Muhammad was practically not even a Muslim, the media have universally concluded that there is "no evidence" connecting him to al-Qaida. Of course, it will be difficult to find any evidence, having instantly pronounced the case closed.

    In one hard-hitting investigative piece on Muhammad, for example, the Times produced amazing details from his life, including conversations with relatives, neighbors, friends and ex-girlfriends. The article droned on about how he met one ex-girlfriend her job, her hobbies, her hopes and dreams. But when she said, "We stopped talking after he asked me about religion," the Times dropped the subject and moved on to the next topic.

    After weeks of blithe theorizing that the sniper was an "angry white male" based on invidious and offensive stereotypes aren't we entitled to a little theorizing about Muhammad's terrorist ties? There is surely more evidence that he was a member of al-Qaida than that he abandoned Islam before carrying out the sniper attacks.

    Emerging as al-Qaida's leading spokesman in America, the Times has also blacked out the information that the terrorists who seized a Moscow theater last week were practitioners of the Religion of Peace.

    I note again: America is at war with Islamic fanatics. But in a prolix front-page article about the "hostage siege" in Russia, the Times referred to the Islamic fanatics who stormed the theater exclusively as the "captors," the "separatists" and the "guerrillas." One searches in vain for a clear statement that the Moscow hostage crisis was yet another enterprise of the Religion of Peace.

    The only hint that the "captors" were even Muslims was the Times' dismissive description of Russian President Vladimir Putin's reaction to the terrorists' demands. Instead of acquiescing, Putin "cho(se) to cast the rebels as international Islamic terrorists." The Times knows a cheap political ploy when it sees one.

    In one of the oddest attempts to soften depictions of Islam the one religion the media respects the Times has apparently banned the word "burka" from its pages. (Burkas have gotten such a bad name recently!) Instead, one reads only about the "burka-style gowns" of the Islamic terrorists in Moscow or the "burka-like robes" of women in Bahrain. (How about: The swastika-like adornment on the skinhead's forearm.)

    Not to be outdone by the Times, CNN has valiantly insisted on calling John Muhammad by his Christian name. The night the snipers' names were first released, CNN's Jeanne Meserve repeatedly called Muhammad two names he does not answer to: "Here are the names. John Allen Williams, aka Muhammad Williams, and also a John Lee Malvo." Williams isn't his name. It's not even "Muhammad Williams." It is John Allen Muhammad.

    After assuring viewers "we will deal with this carefully," Aaron Brown summed up Meserve's report, saying, "We will say again that these two men, John Allen Williams and John Malvo and I'm not clear on the spelling on Malvo ..." While telling whoppers about Muhammad's name, he's fretting about spelling issues.

    The next night Brown slipped and mistakenly called Muhammad by his actual name. He was quickly corrected by Kelli Arena:

    BROWN: "And then it was sometime later that they got the second name, Muhammad or Williams, I guess."

    ARENA: "Right, Williams."

    Perhaps CNN should go whole hog and start describing Muhammad as a member of the "religious right" whose name is "Jerry Falwell."
    Editor-in-Chief
    GameSquad.com

    Comment


    • #3
      The Arab world is undergoing a serious identity crisis. Modernization is oppossed by religious zealots. Political Islam, Islamic zealots, and factions supporting modernization all are fighting for domination in the region. Modernization wants abandon many of the traditional ideals that resist cooperation with the West. Political Islam wants to combine modernization & politics with Islamic law. By doing so, they operate in a gray line between breaking all the rules, and staying within some. Then you hav Islamic zealots, many driven by Political Islam (like Yasser Arafat, and Bin Laden) who are so committed to the old, they can not even consider for a moment modernization and cooperation with the west.

      Even if you don't agree with my analysis of the Middle East, one can easily see that internal, not external powers, are at the root of all the problems. Whether it is a struggle for domination, or to preserve cultural, the Middle East is at war with itself.

      One can honestly argue 9/11 part of an ongoing civil conflict in Saudi Arabia between factions opposing the current Regime, and it's supporters. Bin Laden wants control of Saudi Arabia. He is using general fears of the West and religion to encourage support. Didn't the US do the same in Vietnam? The CIA spread rumors that Catholics in North Vietnam were being tortured and killed. This caused a massive migration of Christians south. (The rumors were exaggrated, not outright lies.) Bin Laden is saying the United States, with support from the puppet Saudi government is persecuting Muslims and must be stopped. Young fighters, determined to defend the religion and land join his cause.

      Ignorance is also a major problem. The United States and the West are not completely sensitive to cultural and political issues in the Middle East. And many arab states continue to allow false teaching about the intent and cultural of the West to continue out of fear of rebellion.

      I believe it's a mistake to characterize the action of many by the foolish efforts of the few. As Tzar stated, I doubt many Muslims give to bits about Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, or the terrorists. All they want is to live rich, productive lives. Let's not steer away from that. If Muslims really supported Bin Laden, they would have all rallied behind his Declarations of War. In fact, many simply dismissed the document and went on about their day.

      John Muhammad was an moron with a rifle who will hopefully suffer. The Nation of Islam is led by corrupt leaders who continue a tradition of persercuting blacks who don't believe in their ideals. Farrakahan is probably the lead suspect behind the assassination of Malcom X. While I do support some of it's ideals. (Blacks not blaming whites for problems and deciding to improve communities on their own is one of them), by and large I ignore it's leaders. For that, I and other black men who go to school, get degrees, and work to help the country, are called Uncle Toms. So SCREW them. Don't give the Nation of Islam Leaders any credit please! Let's just ignore them.

      This is not Muslims vs. the West. It's people who happen to be Muslims vs. The West. There's a big difference. These people don't represent Islam or the Islamic world. Was their cheering after 9/11. YES. However, that's because the local news broadcasted "Great fighters for Islam, with Allah's stength and support, struck a devastating blow against the Great Satan at it's den." They didn't say, "Thousands of people died today when terrorists flew airliners filled with innocent people into two large buildings also crowded with the innocent."

      Before we declare war on Islam, we must make sure the majority of it's people support the violent acts occurring. Misinformation, suspecion, and lies are at the root of our problems. If the Arab people were told the truth, I believe a large majority would seek out the terrorists to hang them. Along with the terrorists, would be all the false teachers, and "experts" who go on television nightly saying the BS.

      As for the media, why are we worried about what they call Muhammad. Either way, all I see is a gutless punk who didn't have the balls to kill up close and personnel. I don't see a Muslim, American, or man, I see a stupid kid who wouldn't last ten seconds with the real deal. Call the bastard what you want, just don't give him any respect.

      The media is taking the easy way out. No they should not in any way try to incite suspecion based on his name. Yet, they aren't going out to explain the reason behind their policy. If they don't want to call this punk Muhammad, fine. However, tell the people why. "He does not, nor will he ever, stand for anything more than insanity and stupdity."

      People are influenced by what they hear. Just because the terrorists are Muslims, Islam must be the cause, and everyone who believes it support the violence. In fact, the terrorists were murderers who needed a motive and found one in Islam by twisting the truth to fit their true political goals.
      "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

      Comment


      • #4
        Making a war against all muslims at this point is no different than the Nazi's trying to exterminate all jews.

        I just happen to live in a place where people of all races and religions get along pretty well. And I have got a few muslim friends as well btw.

        I think it's not fair of you to condemn all muslims just because those murderers happen to be muslims. What gives you the right to condemn an entire religion just because of a few murderers? Do you actually know what Islam is about? If you believe that Islam is what the terrorists are preaching, then you are falling for their trap. Muslims in general did not want this to happen.

        Would anyone listen to a Christian pastor who commits mass murder? Then why would anyone listen to a Terrorist spew about Islam?

        Comment


        • #5
          Boy that sure sounded rational, articulate, and measured. Unfortunately, it ignores practically all that we know about the Middle East.

          I agree with you that Islam is fighting a war with itself. Most other religions and forms of government went through similar crisis...500 years ago! There were reasons behind most of the major conflicts of the last several centuries. Many - not all - of those conflicts could have been avoided altogether if greater communication assets had been available, but there are some lessons that the modern world had to learn the hard way. Virtually all of civilization learned valuable lessons about their neighbors, themselves and the world in general in the last 300 odd years. The Arab world is the exception. It has not prospered along with Europe, Asia and the Americas. It has gone from bad to worse and there is no end in sight. There might be at least a glimmer of hope if Arabs were starting to deal with the root causes of at least a few of their problems. Instead, every Arab nation tends to blame every little thing on the vast "world wide Jewish conspiracy," or on "the imperial greed" of the West. The religious fanatics have no real answers and very little hope to offer a largely unemployed, illiterate, intolerant society that is stuck in something that is beginning to resemble the worst periods of the medieval ages.

          I would be willing to forgive some of the violence and excesses of militant Islam if the attacks were not so premeditated and organized. Conventional wisdom once told us that this was a fringe movement not truly reflective of how most Muslims feel. It is now becoming readily apparent that we may have gravely underestimated the true degree of the problem in the Middle East. These attacks are not local attacks carried out by a few disgruntled fanatics. These attacks are organized in true military fashion complete with multiple training bases, intelligence gathering networks, economic fundraising networks, and an entire system of schools that have exported their hatred to every corner of the globe in hopes of inciting rage and violence. This is not a fringe problem in the Middle East, it is pervasive and effects every aspect of life in the Islamic world. Inshort, these terrorist organizations are getting support from the governments in the region.

          We had been told we need to be more sensitive to the plight of Muslims everywhere and understand the root causes of the violence. Do you think we should have tried to understand the motivations of the Third Reich? No. We crushed it utterly, then we could sit around the campfire, hold hands, and sing "we are the world." We have dumped billions and billions of dollars into the economies of the Middle East, loaned them vast sums of money for military hardware and shared our technology with them. No other society on Earth has every been offered the degree of support and aid the Middle East has received from Asia, America and Europe. Instead of building up these lands into holy areas that could be visited by all people of the world they have squandered all the money, built weapons of mass destruction and brought themselves into direct conflict with almost every other religion and form of government that exists.

          If ordinary Muslims do not begin to stand up and publicly denounce these terrorists for what they are and take steps to improve their own situation, they risk the militant Muslim view becoming the accepted position of all Muslims. We are not there yet, but it is entirely possible that this whole situation could spin out of control and devolve into a civilizational conflict. I can tell you right now which side is going to be destroyed in such a conflict and there will be very little goodwill left towards the Middle East if that occurs.

          Muslims need to get their own houses in order before they start bombing others to effect change. Our patience is great, but is rapidly beginning to run out. America and it allies will not tolerate these little pinprick attacks indefinitely. Militant Muslims are praying for war. They better start hoping their prayers aren't answered.
          Editor-in-Chief
          GameSquad.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Just to play Devils Advocate.lets say that these attacks were carried out by Christians against Muslim majority nations or against Muslim interests,do you think the press would downplay the religion of the attackers then?Or would there be a blanket indictment against a whole religon?By saying that Islam is at war against the West is not saying the majority of people who practice it are.Though it is funny to hear these nations leaders any time there is an attack go "Yes its terrible but it really is YOUR own fault because[insert reason]" .The truth of the matter is that many of these countries support it with a wink and a nod,as long as Infidels are being killed.

            Comment


            • #7
              If ordinary Muslims do not begin to stand up and publicly denounce these terrorists for what they are and take steps to improve their own situation, they risk the militant Muslim view becoming the accepted position of all Muslims.

              They have in my country.

              And they know better than anyone else the direness of the current situation.


              I don't know you can judge something by standing over there and only reading the news. You don't have a clue about the local situation and you want to lecture about Muslims in general and what they are about.

              It's a war against extremist views'ideas around here, not your simple definition of Muslims vs the World.
              Last edited by Twoblade; 01 Nov 02, 18:35.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think a very simplistic portrayal of Middle East is being done by most mainstream Western media. And people here and there are trying to judge the situation without knowing much about Middle East. I suspect most of the so-called commentators you may read in newspapers or on TV have never read just a single book about Middle East history (especially recent history). Most of them probably never even visited those countries and mixed up with the people there. And they are declaring that we are going into a state of war with Islam. Hmmm.

                Maddog, you are saying: Do you think we should have tried to understand the motivations of the Third Reich? Well, the analogy is not very good. The idea is not to understand the motivations of the Third Reich. It is to understand the motivations of the German people after World War I. Allies imposed a great deal of harsh conditions on Germany after World War I (payments for war damage, severe restrictions on army size, etc). That pretty much destroyed Germany's economy and sent the Weimar Republic into a spiral of inflation, depression, and political turmoil. The Nazis used that turmoil to their advantage and the rest is well known. It is now widely recognized that Allies actions towards Germany after WWI played an important role in what happened in Germany after.

                As far as the Third Reich is concerned, it was led by a bunch of thugs and criminals, and their motivations were very wrong. That being said, the original grievances of the German people should not be dismissed as outright wrong because they were used after by thugs and criminals for their own sinister purposes.

                The same can be pretty much said of Islam. The millions of simple Muslims living in the Middle East are no different than Americans in their basic aspirations: a job, a healthy family, a peaceful neiborghood, a good life.

                Although they certainly agree to the fact that the U.S. is too heavily involved in the region and siding unfairly besides Israel (I wonder what Americans would say if Egypt, Iraq or Syria would also be involved in North America's or Central America's affairs as the U.S. is in Middle East internal politics), most of them have more important concerns in life than terrorism and bombs.

                The terrorist Muslims are plain sick people that must be crushed. Period. But they are not representative of Muslims in general, no more than the American redneck crackpots who decided to blew out that federal building in Oklahoma are representative of the American people.

                Islam, Middle East, and the relations of the Western world with this region are very complex. It is very tempting to try to reduce that complexity through simplistic view of the situation so as to make it more understandable, but this will probably make sure we misunderstood more and more everything.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Very good post Tzar

                  Resentment should not be expanded toward the Arab people. We must maintain our focus on the real threat, Islamic zealots who uses religion and political strife to inspire support. I don't need to see countless news reports showing Arabs waving US flags to sustain my belief that not all Arabs wants Americans dead.

                  The attacks are organized, and probably supported by some governments. Yet, organization does not represent general public support. Street gangs in the US are very organized. Small town gangs are sent to larger cities for training at various criminal activities. These gangs are responsible for thousands of homicides and other crimes each year. Gangmembers regularly point to racism and economic repression as the cause that forces them to break the law. These gangs draws it's members from the community they operate in. And few communities rise up against them in the kind of effort needed to defeat street gangs.

                  Does that mean the community support gangs and should be isolated and defeated along with gang members?

                  I hope not.

                  Islam, and those who practice it are not the threat. The danger lies in radicals who practice a twisted form of Islam designed to support their political ideals.

                  Originally posted by TwoBlade

                  Would anyone listen to a Christian pastor who commits mass murder? Then why would anyone listen to a Terrorist spew about Islam?
                  People would listen to that pastor if they were convinced he was holy despite his actions. Bin Laden searches the Koran that can support his beliefs. It's the same thing Koresh, Jim Jones, and other nuts did. They know people will not follow them on just their word. So these people use the desire to please a higher entity as a tool to obtain support.

                  We can not look at this and say the people influence the government. In the Middle East, the governments influence the people. And they are part of the problem. The United States needs to take a firmer stance on our so-called allies. We should not permit countries like Saudi Arabia to continue to promote lies, and hatred, while quietly supporting their so-called enemy. The US seems willing to play scapegoat for corrupt governments needing someone to blame. That is a mistake. The people of the Middle East deserve to hear the truth, not just what some leader wants.

                  I believe the United States should attack those who threaten us when necessary. However, I don't feel Arabs or Islam are the threats. Instead we must turn to address the governments who oppress, lie, and place blame on the United States for their woes.
                  "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Israel,Israel,Israel!

                    Yes all this is those Jews fault,if only they would go away!
                    All of the poor oppressed Muslims.If the nation of Israel was to disappear tommorow from the map,does anyone seriously think that the problems of the middle east will disappear?When in Algeria Muslims slit the throats of Berber babies it is because of Isreal.When Iraq was gassing Kurds and Iranians(who by the way are not Arabs)it was Israels fault.When jetliners are flown into buildings it is Israels fault!No it is time we stop blaming the Jews and the west for the actions taken in the name of Islam.These people are responsible for the actions of their religion,when Africans are enslaved is this the Jews fault too?We put up with things done by Muslim countries which if done by anyone else would bring not only condemnation but swift military action because 'we cannot judge them'.Name one western country where if someone is found practising a different religion they can face flogging or worse?Name a western country where little girls are forced to die in a fire because they are not "properly" dressed?It is time the Islamic nations grow up and take responsibilty for their actions,or else be left behind.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Deltapooh, that is my point exactly. It's all the lies in there. Simple people getting dragged in it. I think it blurs everything. And there's another side trying to drag the innocent from falling for those lies peached by the extremist. What I see is a religion and a people on the brink of destruction by those who claim to be their own.


                      What I detest is the outright condemnation of entire religion, culture or people or country because of a few bad eggs. If you're gonna make war with a country, do so. But you can never justify killing someone because of what he is or where he is born, only by what he does.




                      It is time the Islamic nations grow up and take responsibilty for their actions,or else be left behind.
                      They _are_ behind.
                      Last edited by Twoblade; 02 Nov 02, 02:44.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Twoblade
                        Deltapooh, that is my point exactly. It's all the lies in there. Simple people getting dragged in it. I think it blurs everything. And there's another side trying to drag the innocent from falling for those lies peached by the extremist. What I see is a religion and a people on the brink of destruction by those who claim to be their own.


                        What I detest is the outright condemnation of entire religion, culture or people or country because of a few bad eggs. If you're gonna make war with a country, do so. But you can never justify killing someone because of what he is or where he is born, only by what he does.






                        They _are_ behind.
                        They will be further behind.
                        it is good that you point out that people of a certain religion should not be targeted for their beliefs,for strangely enough this is what many middle eastern countries and their apologists do.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          John Paul - about Israel:

                          I don't think Western people really appreciate how much the violent birth of Israel has been a collective shock to the Arab world, politically, socially and obviously militarily. Before the 50s and 60s when it became more and clear that Israel, heavily supported by powers outside the region, would succeed and live on, the Arab world seemed on a normal development path, not unlike the one of South America. There were dictators, but there were also democratic movements. There was a healthy and maturing nationalism. Then Israel was thrown in their face and every political and social development stopped in their tracks. The Israel issue permeated every aspect of life in the Middle East, and the Arab world has been pretty much frozen in time since then, it is obvious for all to see.

                          Now, I am not saying that Israel is the sole responsible of the problems of Arab countries. They bear their own responsibilities and have huge problems for which they can only blame themselves. They have corrupt and inefficient governments without vision. They are not able to sustain continued economic and social development. The Gulf countries have been squandering their immense wealth in all kinds of useless ventures, and they have been incredibly greedy and not caring of their so-called brothers.

                          So the Arab world is also responsible for what is happening to them. But we should not squarely dismiss the historical shock Israel has been and continue to be. Arabs have still not come to grips with this obviously.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            TZAR -- I don't think Western people really appreciate how much the violent birth of Israel has been a collective shock to the Arab world, politically, socially and obviously militarily. Before the 50s and 60s when it became more and clear that Israel, heavily supported by powers outside the region, would succeed and live on, the Arab world seemed on a normal development path, not unlike the one of South America. There were dictators, but there were also democratic movements. There was a healthy and maturing nationalism. Then Israel was thrown in their face and every political and social development stopped in their tracks. The Israel issue permeated every aspect of life in the Middle East, and the Arab world has been pretty much frozen in time since then, it is obvious for all to see.


                            Indeed, this is the very argument one hears regurgitated by the Palestinians and militant Muslims all the time. In short, this argument purports that the steady decline of the Arab world is the fault of the Israelis. Pure fantasy. The fact of the matter is that the Arab world has been in serious decline for hundreds of years before anyone even thought about creating Israel.

                            The few halfhearted efforts that some Arab nations made toward democratic rule were destined to fail and had nothing to do with Israel. 99% of the suffering of the Muslim peoples of the Middle East is because of problems of their own creation. The Arabs control 99% of the land of the Middle east, virtually all of the natural resources, the vast majority of truly historic holy sites, and vastly outnumber the Jews. The fact of the matter is that the Arabs desperately need the Jews, and they need them very badly. They need something and someone to blame all of their problems on to deflect the rage that the Arab masses feel over the fact that they live in squalor, have virtually no freedom or information, and very little hope that their children will fare better than they have. The religious zealots have absolutely nothing constructive to offer the Arab masses except a call to violence. They constantly stoke the flames of hatred against others to keep themselves in power. If Israel and the West were to disappear tomorrow the Muslim world would still be mired in misery, hopelessness, and religious repression of the worst sort.

                            Many of the people on this forum seem to want to bury their head in the sand to a remarkable degree and pay homage to the gods of political correctness. When America went to war with Japan how do you think we were able to tell the good guys from the bad? I can tell you they didn't have little NATO icons on their t-shirts. In a word - race. That's right, wars are often fought because of race, clashes of culture, and even religion. Some of you seem to desperately want to avoid the fact that these militant Muslims are not attacking us because of policy, money, or any other mundane reason. They are attacking us because they have twisted their religion into a tool of hatred that helps unite other Muslims with their cause and promises rewards in the afterlife for killing Westerners. You can stamp your foot, rationalize it any way you want, or just bury your head in the sand. It doesn't matter, YOU don't get to decide WHY you are being attacked. The attackers have their own motivations and if you will just listen to what they are telling you, you will know everything you need to about their motivations.

                            When a man is breaking into my house and threatening my family, I DON'T CARE that he was abused as a child. I DON'T CARE that he is poor and uneducated. I DON'T CARE that he feels slighted by society and may have been screwed over. All of those things may be true. I have no need to judge him, I'm just going to kill him.

                            How long will you wait until you are forced to see that this war is directed toward you personally. When your daughter is blown to shreds and they have to pick up the pieces for a DNA sample? When you wife is kidnapped, held hostage, and then beheaded on national television? Is that enough, or will it take you personally being crippled or maimed by the terrorists before you recognize that they have declared war on you. Not your neighbor, not your government, not your allies. You. You personally.

                            I am not saying we are at war with Islam. I didn't say that in my original post and I'm not saying it now. What I am saying is that we are at war with terror, and Islam has not yet decided which side it wants to join. Until the "silent majority" of peaceful Muslims rise up, take responsibility for their own condition, and decide to become a part of the modern world, this problem will grow worse. It's not going to go away no matter how hard you try to rationalize the terrorists motivations or the conditions that led to their creation.

                            You have been attacked. You will continue to be attacked. Fight back or die. Your choice.
                            Editor-in-Chief
                            GameSquad.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Maddog

                              The few halfhearted efforts that some Arab nations made toward democratic rule were destined to fail and had nothing to do with Israel. 99% of the suffering of the Muslim peoples of the Middle East is because of problems of their own creation. The Arabs control 99% of the land of the Middle east, virtually all of the natural resources, the vast majority of truly historic holy sites, and vastly outnumber the Jews. The fact of the matter is that the Arabs desperately need the Jews, and they need them very badly. They need something and someone to blame all of their problems on to deflect the rage that the Arab masses feel over the fact that they live in squalor, have virtually no freedom or information, and very little hope that their children will fare better than they have. The religious zealots have absolutely nothing constructive to offer the Arab masses except a call to violence. They constantly stoke the flames of hatred against others to keep themselves in power. If Israel and the West were to disappear tomorrow the Muslim world would still be mired in misery, hopelessness, and religious repression of the worst sort.
                              The first mistake is to impose our political ideals on another nation. Just because some country doesn't approve of democracy does not make them the enemy. That kind of Cold War theology has proven fatal in the past, and will continue to plague US foriegn policy as long as we practice it. We must come to accept other governments. We don't have to support their efforts, but just accept what the people tolerate.

                              Not all Arabs are blaming America and the Jews for their problems. The governments of Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Sudan, and Iraq are being opposed. Not all the factions are blaming the US directly.

                              Secondly, our support of corrupted regimes is probably causing us more problems than anything else. We support these governments, thus creating the belief we support and promote all it's negative behaviors.

                              The religious zealots, politicians, and false scholars are causing many problems. Yet, the United States does nothing to stop them. We offer no counter-action, make deals with those who curse us, and ignore the betrayal, praying it will not come back to hurt us. We should be working just as hard to gain the support of Arabs as we are to hunting down terrorists. And we should not continue to allow corrupted Arab leaders to run our PR operation. Next time Egypt says, "They are our people, let us talk to them," we should tell them to go to hell and take our message to the people.

                              The US is partly responsible for problems in the Middle East. We are the ones that say we want an independent Palestine whenever Arab support is needed. Yet, never expand on how we are going to achieve that. We are the ones sending or allowing the creation of mixed singles about our intent. We are allowing false newspaper articles to be printed, without getting our story out.

                              Example: Iran sent a letter to the UN expressing their grave concern about US development of a new Nuclear weapon capable of attacking both nuclear and non-nuclear capable countries. That is what the media is printing over there. Do you see Bush doing anything to counter this crap? No.

                              http://www.teshreen.com/syriatimes/s-fr/po009.htm

                              Their newspapers are filled with misconceptions and propaghanda, and we do nothing to change that. The people in that region have little else to go on. So of course they are going to believe the information.

                              Originally posted by Maddog

                              Many of the people on this forum seem to want to bury their head in the sand to a remarkable degree and pay homage to the gods of political correctness. When America went to war with Japan how do you think we were able to tell the good guys from the bad? I can tell you they didn't have little NATO icons on their t-shirts. In a word - race. That's right, wars are often fought because of race, clashes of culture, and even religion. Some of you seem to desperately want to avoid the fact that these militant Muslims are not attacking us because of policy, money, or any other mundane reason. They are attacking us because they have twisted their religion into a tool of hatred that helps unite other Muslims with their cause and promises rewards in the afterlife for killing Westerners. You can stamp your foot, rationalize it any way you want, or just bury your head in the sand. It doesn't matter, YOU don't get to decide WHY you are being attacked. The attackers have their own motivations and if you will just listen to what they are telling you, you will know everything you need to about their motivations.
                              You are mistaking a reluctance to kill without clear objectives with submission. I do see the threats, and want military action against them. However, I don't believe military action is appropriate to solve the wider issues. And I don't feel military action will ultimately lead to a successful resolution of political and social problems in the Middle East that threaten our National Security. I can't bury my head and pray things go away, because I know when I do stick my head out, the problem will be larger than before. I don't want to waste my energy chasing an shadow.

                              I completely aware why wars are fought. I've been studyng them since I was eleven. Many of those wars resulted in temporary solutions to long term problems.

                              This is not a struggle against a clearly defined opponent intent on meeting us in battle. We have an elusive enemy who is capitalizing on our humanity to ensure it's survival. The terrorists have chosen proper ground to base to base their operations. It's up to the United States, and it's allies to capture this land, and deny it to the enemy. This can not be accomplished through military action alone. We will need to convince the local population we are not the enemy. This is an effort the US has failed at so far.

                              Orignally posted by Maddog

                              When a man is breaking into my house and threatening my family, I DON'T CARE that he was abused as a child. I DON'T CARE that he is poor and uneducated. I DON'T CARE that he feels slighted by society and may have been screwed over. All of those things may be true. I have no need to judge him, I'm just going to kill him.
                              Unfortunately the man isn't in your house. He is standing in the middle of the street among a large crowd of people taking pop-shots at your house and family. He mask himself among the crowd. You can shoot into the crowd hoping to hit pay-dirt. However, chances are, you will fail to kill the enemy and be arrested for manslaughter. Now your family is unprotected meaning more people will die from your futile attempt.

                              Maddog, there is an enemy. We do know what he looks like, but we can't just blame all the people that surround him for his actions. The only thing that will do is prove the claimer of oppression right, and undermine your overall strategic objectives to bring about peace.

                              I know the war is directed at me. I'm just not inclined to sling into the dark hoping to hit something. I realize that if we begin to blame Arabs for these attacks, we will be playing into the hands of our opponents, making long-term success impossible. A man in Saudi Arabia is going to be just as interested in listening to our side if his family is dead. The same can be said for Americans. The difference is we have knowledge and the ability to change things. The Arab mand doesn't. We need to focus just on the threats, not on the people.
                              "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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