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  • Stem cells

    Last night Nancy Reagan broke ranks with conservative Republicans by making an appeal to Bush that he lift the ban on stem cell research. Bush is finding himself under increasing pressure from all sides to lift the ban. With the promise that stem cells show in helping such maladies as Parkinsons and Alzhiemers people are getting the feeling that we are wasting precious time in the fight against these ailments and others. So should the ban on stem cell research be lifted or not?

  • #2
    Priest to be sure of what you are pseaking about, the stem cell are the one you can get from embryo and which get permanently the power to tranform themselve to any kind of organ ?

    Am'I right

    Der WanderNotsure
    The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
    JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
    The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

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    • #3
      Yes Jean Luc you are correct, more precisely I believe that stem cells come from the umbilical cord. They are unspecialized cells that will become the type of cell in whatever location that they are placed. For instance, if they are put in the brain they will become brain cells...if they are put in the liver they will become liver cells etc.
      Last edited by Priest; 08 Jun 04, 13:11.

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      • #4
        We have the same problem here since the vote by french parliament of the bio-ethical law of december 2003.

        Cloning of embryo or any cloning technic even for stem cell is strictly forbidden.

        Reproductive cloning is considered as a crime against human specie and could be sentenced by 30 years of Jail with a penalty of 7,5 million €

        Therapeutic clonnig is sentenced with 7 years of Jail with a penalty of 100.000 €.

        It seems that there could be a hope with stem cell still present in Adults tissues, but their use is far far more difficult than the embryo one.

        Very difficult subject as it is related to the human specie itself, it is a hard ethical subject, like abortion.

        Der WanderForTherapeuticClonning
        The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
        JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
        The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

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        • #5
          I can understand the concern about abortions, but, stem cells can be obtained from the umbilical cords from normal births. Since this can revolutionize medicine as we know it I am for overturning the ban.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Priest
            I can understand the concern about abortions, but, stem cells can be obtained from the umbilical cords from normal births. Since this can revolutionize medicine as we know it I am for overturning the ban.
            I read a lot and here are the differences.

            The full operatioanl stem cell are obtained from embryo at the age of 5 days in blastula mode.

            The one you get from umbilical cord are more blood oriented stem cell, but lattest research made by a Belgium girl in USA seems to prove they can be transformed to work on other functions.

            In this case you are right there are no fundamental ethical blockngs for the use of umbilical cord stem cell.

            Der WanderAgreewithYou
            The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
            JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
            The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

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            • #7
              Actually the harvesting of blood stem cells from umbilical cords is a smart move if the baby later develops leukaemia. No need for a donor match, just unfreeze the stem cells and Voila. Freezing of stem cells is a growing business here in Denmark and elsewhere.
              ...the troops of love are pulling out... (D.A.D.)

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              • #8
                Actually I don't even know if in Canada this is allowed. Any Canadian on the board has the answer?

                In any case, I certainly support any genetic technology that aims at improving the life and health of people. The fact that in this case it could come from foetuses don't make me overly concerned since I support the right to abortion. Of course, it has to be severely controlled to prevent abuses but as long as rules and conditions are established for the practice of getting stem cells, I don't see why we should not use it.

                It's just common sense. I certainly agree that the family of Ronald Reagan should have had the right to enjoy a mentally healthy man until the end, rather than the painful and humiliating degradation that is brought by the Alzheimer's disease.

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                • #9
                  Jean Luc was correct and that is what they were banning, using an embryo raised certain ethical questions, but, since they can use stem cells from an umbilical cord that is going to be discarded anyway makes the ban even more questionable.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Priest
                    Jean Luc was correct and that is what they were banning, using an embryo raised certain ethical questions, but, since they can use stem cells from an umbilical cord that is going to be discarded anyway makes the ban even more questionable.
                    I think stem cell research is one of the most important areas of medical science today and it might lead to breakthroughs in the cure of certain diseases such as Alzheimer and such.
                    That's why I think a ban is one of the most stupid acts possible here.
                    "A platoon of Chinese tanks viciously attacked a Soviet harvester,
                    which was peacefully working a field near the Soviet-Chinese border.
                    The harvester returned fire and upon destroying the enemy
                    returned to its home base."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mr_clark
                      I think stem cell research is one of the most important areas of medical science today and it might lead to breakthroughs in the cure of certain diseases such as Alzheimer and such.
                      That's why I think a ban is one of the most stupid acts possible here.
                      Felix,

                      This not an easy one.

                      In a philosophic point of view, we are playing with the fundamantal of what makes the human beings.
                      Even if I agree that women are free to manage their pregnancy and free too for choosing abortion, it is in their own that the question is ruling.

                      The use of 5 days clonned embryo is something else, it is not a mother who play the game here, it is a technician, or a researcher.
                      What are the borders when can raise here in the use of clonned embryo.

                      What could stop some foolish researcher to go a step further and create a cloned human being !!!!

                      Felix without any bad thoughts about past , just think what a mad brain as a Mangele like could do with this clonning technology !!!!.

                      I don't say I'm against but it frighten me to have my skin like a chicken one.

                      Both of as brother (it is Chirac and Schröder who tell it ), so both of us can hear from past a noise of boots, a vibring hard voice harranging das volk und das volk schrien Sieg H... Sieg H.
                      An other one may come in future willing to create anew a pure man and the eradication of untermensch.
                      Or just for money big multinational companies wanting obedient slaves to produce their goods.

                      No no no no, everything needing clonning must be ban, it is too dangerous

                      Der WanderNiemalsWieder
                      The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
                      JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
                      The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

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                      • #12
                        Even if you ban everything regarding cloning someone will finally do some research on the subject. Technology allows it, so it will be developed in some way: under the control of governments, by private companies out of control or maybe by a secret laboratory financed by the same government baning research. It's scaring, but unavoidable.

                        Let's speculate:

                        Maybe one day you will go to doctor to change your kidneys or have a new liver. Think on consequences... Diseases will have an end? Maybe one day we will die only by accident. Poor people probably won't have access to inmortality, a good cause for revolt. Genetic engineering could create a race of slaves as Jean Luc says. It is like opening Pandora's box
                        Cual lidian bien, sobre dorado arzón
                        Mio Cid Ruy Diaz, el buen lidiador;
                        Minaya Alvar Fáñez, que en Zorita mandó;
                        Martín Antolínez, el burgalés de pro...!

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                        • #13
                          Having seen some of the terribly sad cases of mutation and deformity that nature has brought into this world, without the deliberate intervention of man, I can't see how anything man could intentionally make could be worse. Things without developed brains, lungs that don't work in air, hearts that can't pump on their own, closed bowels, it's all been done already, naturally.

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                          • #14
                            Imagine: Possibly even with umbilical stem cells you could perhaps someday grow some huge walking organ donor. It could be your clone and your buddy too! - until you fell sick and eviscerated it/him. I support lifting the ban.

                            Sorry about the macabre humor. It is not actually intended as irony or sarcasm. My lift the ban sentiment is true, but I felst like embracing/investigating some of the more bizarre, science fictional posibilities.
                            ...a man that can stand up for a principle and sit down on his own stool.
                            -the Firesign Theatre

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tiberius
                              Imagine: Possibly even with umbilical stem cells you could perhaps someday grow some huge walking organ donor. It could be your clone and your buddy too! - until you fell sick and eviscerated it/him. I support lifting the ban.

                              Sorry about the macabre humor. It is not actually intended as irony or sarcasm. My lift the ban sentiment is true, but I felst like embracing/investigating some of the more bizarre, science fictional posibilities.
                              I can't see humans not giving full rights to a fully developed human clone after all they are humans in every sense of the word. I doubt anything like that would happen, but sure there could be some scary possibilities no doubt.

                              Heard on the radio the other day scientists are experimenting introducing some kangaroo dna into dairy cows, kangaroos produce very very nutritious milk even on poor desert diets.
                              Not lip service, nor obsequious homage to superiors, nor servile observance of forms and customs...the Australian army is proof that individualism is the best and not the worst foundation upon which to build up collective discipline - General Monash

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