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Is the "I love you me neither" finished between USA and France ?

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  • Is the "I love you me neither" finished between USA and France ?

    Since three days there are many declaration of our "beloved" presidents and never there was an hiden war between our two countries .
    Better we got a special interview of the first lady speaking of her courageous husband, who never considered France as an enemy just a friend not agreeing with his position.

    Bla Bla Bla

    What's the hell here they want us to **** flies ?

    Or there is a subtle change on policy ?

    your opinion

    Der WanderDon'tTakeTheGod'sChildrenForWildDuck
    21
    The true burrial of hatchet between the 2 countries
    0.00%
    0
    Beginning of "peace talk" to help UN resolution to be accepted
    23.81%
    5
    A smoke screen just fired for the 6th June 60th Year
    66.67%
    14
    Other ?
    9.52%
    2
    Last edited by jlbetin; 03 Jun 04, 16:31.
    The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
    JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
    The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

  • #2
    other...

    JL I fear I misinterpret some of your idioms here, but I truly in my heart believe this is the beginning of a great friendship between France and the USA.
    "You can't change the rules in the middle of the game."
    "Hey, you just made that rule up."


    Heil Dicke Bertha!

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm too cynical, so I voted for the D-Day option.

      Comment


      • #4
        I voted Other. It's somewhere between a smoke screen and some kind of polite and limited reconciliation over a disagreement that was not as dramatic as the media wanted us to believe.

        In fact, the US and France were never that far apart anyway. We all too much indulge into media frenziness that makes people behave like idiots to the point that they are starting to change the name of things (remember these short-lived "freedom" fries? How ridiculous).

        In the real world, relations between France and the US were never that much affected. Trade continued to flow between both countries, tourism continued to flow, there was some hiccups here and there for sure, but nothing even remotely closed to the "dramatic rupture" the mass media wanted us to believe. As far as the fight against terrorism was concerned, quiet but efficient cooperation between both countries has continued, as well as cooperation in Afghanistan.

        We should all look beyond the smoke and mirrors offered to us by the media and the politicians.
        Last edited by Tzar; 03 Jun 04, 22:27.

        Comment


        • #5
          I am with JL. We are so close yet so different. Our problem is working together when we actually do agree.

          Should France cowtow to America? hell no.

          How should we view France? With a close eye.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have a very negative opinion of French President Chirac. He claims he has no interest in seeing America fail in Iraq. Yet, he's pursued a policy, which complicated, if not reduced the chances for success. His credibility with me and likely many within the US government is about as good as Bush globally at the moment.

            Having said that; I've always felt there is line between politics and people. In that respect, I always have and always will see France as a close friend and allie. They have stayed by our side in times of crisis, and forgiven America's arrogant behavior patterns. It would be a crime to allow a brief disagreement to ruin a vital relationship. France and America must cooperate in the interest of the global community, even if that means suppressing personal opinions of individual leaders and pride.

            Right now, it is important France and the US communicate in a straight-forward and honest manner. That is the only way diplomats can overcome the degree of mistrust both sides have contributed to. If that means Bush having to be the first to offer his hand, so be it. (He probably should anyway.)

            So what do I want from France?

            Mutual honesty, trust, and cooperation. This does not mean I wish France to abandon her beliefs. However it, like the US, must be open to compromise in the better interest of both our countries. Cooperation is a constant process. I believe both nations must re-commit themselves to that effort.
            "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

            Comment


            • #7
              I think it's like it always is...

              You disagree and disagree even harder you have a frozen relationship and then you start talks to regain what was before...
              "A platoon of Chinese tanks viciously attacked a Soviet harvester,
              which was peacefully working a field near the Soviet-Chinese border.
              The harvester returned fire and upon destroying the enemy
              returned to its home base."

              Comment


              • #8
                I think it will take administration changes in both countries to set things back to normal. So I don't see things getting better for a few more years.
                "Nations are never content to confine their rivalships and enmities to themselves. It is their usual policy to disseminate them as widely, as they can, regardless how far it may interfere with the tranquility or happiness of the nations which they are able to influence." -- Alexander Hamilton

                Comment


                • #9
                  I voted for the D-Day option as well, I'm not sure that the US and France are going to enjoy normal relations until Bush and/or Chirac are out of power.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Priest
                    I voted for the D-Day option as well, I'm not sure that the US and France are going to enjoy normal relations until Bush and/or Chirac are out of power.
                    I think that most of us think the same. It is just smoke for D Day celebration. It needs a majority change in one of the 2 countries to get an evolution of relationship between them.

                    Der WanderDubious
                    Last edited by jlbetin; 05 Jun 04, 10:57.
                    The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
                    JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
                    The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      An outsider's view, from the arse end of the world.

                      I reckon that the 'split' between France and the US is indicative of a much bigger conflict. The USA, as sole superpower, wants to keep it that way; USA as No 1, everyone else a distant second. But there are those in the European Union, not least the French, who would like to see themselves up there with the Yanks. Now that the unifying effect of the Soviet Union has gone, the EU and US will 'fight' to see who sits on the top seat.

                      This will cause a hell of a lot of tension, as the Europeans build themselves up, while the Yanks seek to keep them down. This is a conflict fought not with missiles and bombs, but with diplomacy and economics. It is a conflict that the Europeans can win, and where I think they have a distinct edge, as their economy is stronger, while they seem to have a bit more caginess and cunning in their diplomacy.

                      This will be an ongoing conflict, and will outlast Bush and Chirac. France is just the more obvious face, and easier to target from an American perspective. The Germans and other Europeans are with the French on this one. The EU is still very fragmented politically, but then, it doesn't have to be very coherent just yet, it's not preparing to fight a military conflict. It just needs to build it's economic strength, the strength of it's currency, and seek to grow.

                      Like I said, my 2 cents from the outside.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Following the G8 meeting it seems things are not going well at all

                        Der WanderNotSurprised
                        The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
                        JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
                        The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jlbetin
                          Following the G8 meeting it seems things are not going well at all

                          Der WanderNotSurprised
                          I agree there is alot of tension at the G8 Summit. I don't believe Bush and Blair should have called for NATO participation in Iraq. The purpose of international commitment to Iraq should be to improve the situation. I feel Bush wants NATO in Iraq so he can win the next election, and that isn't fair to our allies. Thus I respect and support their decision not to contribute in such a manner.

                          Bush has been more successful in securing economic support for Iraq, which I believe is more important than boots on the ground. Allies should be prepared to forgive most, if not all of Iraq's debts incurred under the rule of Saddam Hussein. This could help jump-start the economy. Whatever assistance that is provided should be clearly outlined and monitored to ensure those nations who wish to contribute to rebuilding Iraq know their money is going where it intended. There should also be clear conditions for halting such aide.

                          However, Bush is only part of the problem. Chirac is as arrogant and stupid as he was in the before the D-Day ceremonies. His comments are not the real problem. His attitude in general creates tension.

                          Bush and Chirac, along with all G8 members must commit themselves in expanding on unity, not destroying it. There is room to compromise. Our leaders must commitment themselves totally to finding it.
                          "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Deltapooh
                            I agree there is alot of tension at the G8 Summit. I don't believe Bush and Blair should have called for NATO participation in Iraq. The purpose of international commitment to Iraq should be to improve the situation. I feel Bush wants NATO in Iraq so he can win the next election, and that isn't fair to our allies. Thus I respect and support their decision not to contribute in such a manner.

                            Bush has been more successful in securing economic support for Iraq, which I believe is more important than boots on the ground. Allies should be prepared to forgive most, if not all of Iraq's debts incurred under the rule of Saddam Hussein. This could help jump-start the economy. Whatever assistance that is provided should be clearly outlined and monitored to ensure those nations who wish to contribute to rebuilding Iraq know their money is going where it intended. There should also be clear conditions for halting such aide.

                            However, Bush is only part of the problem. Chirac is as arrogant and stupid as he was in the before the D-Day ceremonies. His comments are not the real problem. His attitude in general creates tension.

                            Bush and Chirac, along with all G8 members must commit themselves in expanding on unity, not destroying it. There is room to compromise. Our leaders must commitment themselves totally to finding it.
                            The only one coming by feet -> Super Liar
                            The Only one with a tie -> Super Liar

                            He is a tough one isn't it !!!!

                            Problem with NATO, what's the hell with GWB, why NATO in IRAQ ? we are far form Europe, and there are no threat against any member of North Atlantic treaty !!!

                            Concerning debt I agree with JC, there are poorer countries who needs their debt to be reduced, and those one have no Oil. Iraq may get money with their oil there are no more embargo now.

                            Der WanderIWasObligedToVoteChiracWhatAShame
                            The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
                            JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a █ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
                            The Birth of European Army Tournament round Three is opened

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