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  • Anyone Else Find it Strange...

    That the graves for all of the "wedding party guests" alledgedly killed by a US Air/Helo/Missile/Bowling Ball strike, or whatever it's being called now, were neatly dug and ready for the bodies by daybreak the same morning as the "attack"?! They looked like a backhoe dug them.

    Also, notice how the videotaped murder of a US citizen quickly left the media, while the prison abuse thing continues to snowball?

    **** the media, period.

  • #2
    Agreed.
    Editor-in-Chief
    GameSquad.com

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    • #3
      Don't know about the predug graves, but it wouldn't surprise me what with all the dying going on. "Ah, just dig 20 instead of 10, Mohammed. This way we can sleep late tomorrow."

      As to the beheading and the prison, you can't compare them. If any newspaper ran the beheading over and over, I'd think they were trying their hand at propaganda. There's not much to say about it, CP...unless you want to start talking about the role of contractors, the Iraqi culture of violence, etc. But the act itself, other than to the man's family, isn't that deep.

      The prison scandal however speaks to something quite different. The reason for that is because it isn't just a few sadistic privates kicking Iraqis around. If that had been the case, this story might also have disappeared by now. But there's so much more to this lurking below the surface. When you have the Sec of Defense, not several months earlier, speaking about how the Geneva Conventions don't necessarily apply to the War on Terror(ism), and then this happens, one has to wonder if somewhere, in some office, in some backroom, this **** isn't insisted upon.

      The media needs to keep this going until we have final answers. Otherwise it might fall to the bottom of the judicial pile and what caused it might very well happen again.
      Even Jesus will never forgive what you do - Bob Dylan

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      • #4
        Are you saying that the terrorists deserve treatment IAW the Geneva Convention? I don't think they do. I think that, like other faux pas committed by the DoD, this one was not treated as it should have been.

        "Did you order a Code Red on PVT Santiago?"
        "YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I DID!"

        That's they way it SHOULD have been handled, with all of the attendent reasoning to go with it.

        "The terrorists are terrorists. They don't follow a code from Geneva, why should we?"

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        • #5
          I agree about the handling of the perps in the prison scandal. Pictures surface in Jan. and in mid May we're just now hearing about trials and what not.

          Whether or not the terrorists abide by the Geneva Convention, we should. Otherwise all that **** about the US being the land of law, freedom, liberty, happiness and human rights goes right out the window. We do that and we've already lost in my opinion even if we pacify Iraq.
          Even Jesus will never forgive what you do - Bob Dylan

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          • #6
            Originally posted by CPangracs
            **** the media, period.

            Yet it has its uses like when the need comes around to show the dead sons of a dictator , im afraid in the end you've to take the good along with the bad.





            Raven

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CPangracs
              That the graves for all of the "wedding party guests" alledgedly killed by a US Air/Helo/Missile/Bowling Ball strike, or whatever it's being called now, were neatly dug and ready for the bodies by daybreak the same morning as the "attack"?! They looked like a backhoe dug them.

              Also, notice how the videotaped murder of a US citizen quickly left the media, while the prison abuse thing continues to snowball?

              **** the media, period.
              I agree with you, but remember that nobody expects anything good or intelligent to come out of terrorists like the ones who beheaded Berg. So although the beheading was utterly disgusting and sick, it was hardly surprising, considering the bunch of cowards and murderers they are. These terrorists do not represent anybody else but themselves, since most Arabs have also been disgusted by the whole affair.

              On the other hand, the prison abuse was almost as sick and much more surprising, coming from people on duty hired and managed by a responsible and organized country, the U.S. What is even more surprising is that the American authorities of the highest level did not seem to do much to prevent such stuff happening. People expect much more from the American government and its leaders. The prison abuse ultimately involves the responsibility of the government of the US. That is far more serious than a bunch of a couple of crazy murderers and cowards.

              You can't put both events on the same footing, that would be like putting terrorists and American officials and soldiers at the same level of behavior.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tzar
                On the other hand, the prison abuse was almost as sick and much more surprising, coming from people on duty hired and managed by a responsible and organized country, the U.S.
                I agree with half of this. The US is agressively investigating the issue and every little detail of it is being leaked to the world wide media on an hourly basis. There really isn't much more that can be done.

                As for the first part...wrong. Murder and assault are two very different things. These enemy prisoners are now going to be very rich men and some of them are moving to the US. To equate the two is highly questionable.
                Editor-in-Chief
                GameSquad.com

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                • #9
                  You will of course note that there are some dead arab prisoners too, complete with photographs of them about to be zipped up. I don't think there are many undamaged walls in that glass house.

                  And of course nobody here is too ignorant to appreciate the Muslim habit of burying the dead within one day of their death. There are some suspicious factors involved in the "wedding" attack, but don't be so stupid as to say that the tradition of quick burial is one of them. All it does it reinforce ignorance of a culture that you should be more aware, of given current circumstances.

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                  • #10
                    I am very frustrated with the Arab media. It often is very lacking of balance. The execution of Berg and the US prison scandal is another example of this. Americans opened a can of whip-*ss on the government within hours of the first photos beamed into their living room. We have not offered execuses, and the American people are making it clear they won't tolerate this kind of behavior.

                    On the otherhand, as Secretary of State Powell pointed out, outrage over the execution of Berg has been rather subdued in the Middle East. The main problem is not that Arabs support that kind of behavior. It is their resources of information refuses to accept contradicting facts. Newspapers had a little picture of Berg about to be beheaded surrounded by articles of Palestinians being killed and photos of Americans mistreating Iraqi prisoners. This creates a psychological effect which seems to justify the Berg killing without actually saying it.

                    It is to the discredit of America that we tend to validate what is basically Arab propoganda through our failures and mistakes. Yet, I fear disinformation in the Middle East is just as deadly as any bullet. I just don't know how exactly to change things without further complicating the problem.
                    "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CPangracs
                      That the graves for all of the "wedding party guests" alledgedly killed by a US Air/Helo/Missile/Bowling Ball strike, or whatever it's being called now, were neatly dug and ready for the bodies by daybreak the same morning as the "attack"?! They looked like a backhoe dug them.
                      For this detail there might be an easy explantion: some or most Muslims have to bury their dead very quickly, before the next daybreak or something like that.

                      That doesn't mean I buy the innocent marriage party story. At the very least they "joy-firing" into the air when U.S. forces were near. Instant Darwin award.

                      However, remember that precisely the same thing happened in Afghanistan, where it was found to be such a case (real wedding, but people firing into the air, with IIRC Apaches somewhere near, probably some bozos fiding it funny to fire in their direction and then get CAS called in on them).

                      I think the most likely scenario is that this Iraq wedding is a set-up inspired by and intended to copy the Afhanistan incident. However, I wouldn't doubt that they actually sacrified 40 people for this stunt, so the wedding and the guests might have been there and from their (and the survivor's) perspective been just an innocent party.

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                      • #12
                        All the comments about the arab media and people not kicking up a fuss about the Berg incident is nonsense. They didnt invite the coalition to invade them, if they see these atrocities happening they would surely think it is something that was caused by the invasion/occupation.

                        The US invades and an american is killed.

                        Take the first half of that snetence away and the second half would never of happened.
                        Not lip service, nor obsequious homage to superiors, nor servile observance of forms and customs...the Australian army is proof that individualism is the best and not the worst foundation upon which to build up collective discipline - General Monash

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                        • #13
                          Wow - do you live in the real world?
                          Black & blue from the TOAW learning curve!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Foggy
                            Wow - do you live in the real world?
                            No i live outside of America, sorry.
                            Not lip service, nor obsequious homage to superiors, nor servile observance of forms and customs...the Australian army is proof that individualism is the best and not the worst foundation upon which to build up collective discipline - General Monash

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                            • #15
                              No - I did'nt mean that - I'm trying to understand your logic - an eye for an eye is ok as long as the victim is American - do you realize that you are
                              starting to sound like Dan?
                              Black & blue from the TOAW learning curve!

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