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Maybe to even things out a bit for Holleywood?

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  • Maybe to even things out a bit for Holleywood?

    Just recently on this forum, there seems to be a sentiment against Holleywoods' false portrait of history: mostly to promote American heroes and miracles..... I am not going to say Holleywood was ever being historically accurate --- but it is interesting for me to personally noticed some opposite examples, esp. the unfair treatments Holleywood has traditionally cast on CIA figures. After years of watching Holleywood portraiting CIA as a mix of idiots and bad guys, I was almost convinced that FBI was the good and CIA was the evil.... (lol ).... but indeed, after I read some articles (esp. a report by CIA chief officer to the Congress on China issues --- which I could have more first hand knowledge myself) by CIA, it became clear that these agents are not only good, but they are much smarter and serious than I had ever imagined ---- Holleywood definitely had poured the dirty water on the wrong people, in this case.

    Well, still the bottomline is Holleywood is just piece of ..... hmm.. wait, but everyone loves those hot babes, right?
    Last edited by ER_Chaser; 04 Oct 02, 16:45.
    Attn to ALL my opponents:

    If you sent me your turn and after 24 hours, you still did not get anything from me, please be sure to post in the forum to ask for what is going on.

    Remember, I ALWAYS reply within 24 hours, even if I do NOT have time to play my turn, in which case I will at least send you email to tell you that I will have to play it later, but I DO receive your turn.

  • #2
    lol ... that is so funny. When I first post this thread, I clicked the wrong "emotion" --- I meant for a smile, but instead, clicked "unhappy" and did not notice it until I saw from outside the post. So I choose edit again and try to change it, but you see the effect? Out from the message, it is still "unhappy" but inside, you see a smiling face.

    haha.. maybe you report this bug to the forum vendor, they can save us one month's fee, Don ?
    Attn to ALL my opponents:

    If you sent me your turn and after 24 hours, you still did not get anything from me, please be sure to post in the forum to ask for what is going on.

    Remember, I ALWAYS reply within 24 hours, even if I do NOT have time to play my turn, in which case I will at least send you email to tell you that I will have to play it later, but I DO receive your turn.

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    • #3
      Re: Maybe to even things out a bit for Holleywood?

      Originally posted by ER_Chaser
      Well, still the bottomline is Holleywood is just piece of ..... hmm.. wait, but everyone loves those hot babes, right?
      If there are going to be more unhistorical war movies, they might as well put some of those hot babes in there as well.

      Feather Beach - Alyssa Milano, Angelina Jolie, and Heather Graham are members of the only all-female battalion to go ashore at Normandy on D-Day. After kicking plenty of German butt for a few days the battalion is given two weeks leave by their commanding officer, played by Bill Murray. When not preparing for the upcoming 'Operation Cobra', the ladies spend most of their time prancing around the beach in bikinis.

      Hot on the Tail - Julia Roberts and Ashley Judge of the 101st Airborne Division team up in the fall of 1944 to steal perfume worth $10,000,000 sitting in a German Army warehouse in Belfort. After the Germans move the perfume to Colmar the help of a rogue tank commander, played by Camaron Diaz, is enlisted. Diaz's character promises to help with her Sherman tanks as long as there aren't any 'negative waves'.
      "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

      Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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      • #4
        Re: Re: Maybe to even things out a bit for Holleywood?

        Originally posted by Chuck


        If there are going to be more unhistorical war movies, they might as well put some of those hot babes in there as well.

        Feather Beach - Alyssa Milano, Angelina Jolie, and Heather Graham are members of the only all-female battalion to go ashore at Normandy on D-Day. After kicking plenty of German butt for a few days the battalion is given two weeks leave by their commanding officer, played by Bill Murray. When not preparing for the upcoming 'Operation Cobra', the ladies spend most of their time prancing around the beach in bikinis.

        Hot on the Tail - Julia Roberts and Ashley Judge of the 101st Airborne Division team up in the fall of 1944 to steal perfume worth $10,000,000 sitting in a German Army warehouse in Belfort. After the Germans move the perfume to Colmar the help of a rogue tank commander, played by Camaron Diaz, is enlisted. Diaz's character promises to help with her Sherman tanks as long as there aren't any 'negative waves'.

        LOL

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        • #5
          Re: Re: Maybe to even things out a bit for Holleywood?

          Originally posted by Chuck


          If there are going to be more unhistorical war movies, they might as well put some of those hot babes in there as well.

          Feather Beach - Alyssa Milano, Angelina Jolie, and Heather Graham are members of the only all-female battalion to go ashore at Normandy on D-Day. After kicking plenty of German butt for a few days the battalion is given two weeks leave by their commanding officer, played by Bill Murray. When not preparing for the upcoming 'Operation Cobra', the ladies spend most of their time prancing around the beach in bikinis.
          Of course, the Germans will have to send in their own elite all female unit, the vaunted 69th Independant Infantry Battalion, at which point vicious 'hand-to-hand' fighting ensues. And don't forget the slow-motion shots of the US all female Battalion running up the beach, after emerging from the water.

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          • #6
            The subject of historical accuracy in movies (both Hollywood and elsewhere) is something we have discussed on this forum before, but I guess it's time to start it up again.

            First, let me say that I really appreciate a historically accurate war movie. Second, I can count the total number of movies that fall into this category on one hand. Let's not presume this is some new phenomenon that just cropped up in the last year or so. That's pure hogwash. The film industry has never had historical accuracy as one of its main goals. The main goal of a movie is to make money. Period. That's the end of the story. If you're watching movies to learn about history, I guarantee you are going to get a distorted view of what really happened. A movie, even a very good one from a director concerned will sticking to the facts, is not a very useful vehicle for showing what really happened. Let me give you a few examples.

            I read some of the behind-the-scenes director's commentary from A Bridge Too Far (an "accurate" war movie...). The director stated that there were literally hundreds of items that the historical advisors pointed out as inaccurate, but these could not be changed. One specific example he mentioned was the scene in which British tanks rolls across the bridge after the 82's river assault. The tanks were way too close together and the historical advisors stated that no unit ever moved through urban terrain like that. This couldn't be changed because to do so the scene showing five or six tanks moving across would have taken ten minutes as it did in real life. Accurate? Yes, but who wants to watch a film in which half the audience falls asleep? These types of trade offs are constantly necessary throughout every film. Some of them are subtle, some of them are quite radical and involve changing the order of events or simply omitting critical parts of history. Another example is Black Hawk Down. The actual battle was quite a bit more confused, spread out, and involved many more key personnel than are shown in the movie. Ridley Scott acknowledges this, but he says it was necessary to combine many of the real life people into a much smaller number of on-screen personalities. Otherwise, the movie would have kept jumping around to so many different people and events the audience would have been totally confused and unable to follow what was going on. Some events were changed, others were completely omitted or performed by someone else. However, the basic theme of what happened is largely preserved.

            This type of thing is true in every war movie. More so in the older ones, not the newer ones! There is not a single war movie made in the '60s or '70s that was anything even remotely accurate. John Wayne, Henry Fonda, Robert Mitchum, Robert Shaw... none of these actors made a real "war" movie. They made action movies that were very loosely based on a real event. Don't even start talking about Tora Tora Tora, Midway, or The Longest Day. These films are as fraught with inaccurate or omitted detail as any movie made today.

            Once you accept that the movie industry is not part of the education system you'll be in a far better position to judge movie quality. Now I do think there are two different types of films we are talking about here. The first are movies like U571, Sands of Iwo Jima, Pearl Harbor, etc. These movies are not "war" movies at all. They are dramas or action films set against a backdrop of a semi-historical event. They are in no way intended to portray a real event, and they state that at the end of the credits. If you're watching these for historical accuracy, well, you're going to be frustrated fairly often. The second type of film (far less common) are films that are supposed to be based on a real battle or event, Gettysburg, A Bridge Too Far, Saving Private Ryan, etc. The main theme of the movie is not the character development, or a love story or anything like that. The main theme is the battle itself, and the characters only purpose is to help depict what actually happened. Most of the films that do attempt to fit into this category are:

            a. Inaccurate because it is simply way too expensive or impractical to show what really happened.
            b. Inaccurate because two hours is simply not enough time to relate the relevant facts in a watchable fashion.
            c. Inaccurate because the facts are in dispute or the director is attempting to make a social or political statement.
            d. Inaccurate because the producers were concerned that the director was making an accurate film that would alienate or offend part of the potential audience. The producers don't want to make a documentary, they want to make money.

            There seems to be a common theme running through this thread that Hollywood, which should be in the business of educating us and preserving history, has somehow been corrupted by the money grubbing producers who are only interested in getting a return on their investment. How dare they! The fact of the matter is that Hollywood (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't make accurate war films. That's why they call them movies, not documentaries... their primary purpose is to get you to spend your hard earned money. They are obviously succeeding, because in spite of all your objections, you guys are still going out and paying to see them.

            Now where is my copy of Aliens...
            Editor-in-Chief
            GameSquad.com

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            • #7
              Originally Posted by Chuck

              Feather Beach - Alyssa Milano, Angelina Jolie, and Heather Graham are members of the only all-female battalion to go ashore at Normandy on D-Day. After kicking plenty of German butt for a few days the battalion is given two weeks leave by their commanding officer, played by Bill Murray. When not preparing for the upcoming 'Operation Cobra', the ladies spend most of their time prancing around the beach in bikinis.

              Hot on the Tail - Julia Roberts and Ashley Judge of the 101st Airborne Division team up in the fall of 1944 to steal perfume worth $10,000,000 sitting in a German Army warehouse in Belfort. After the Germans move the perfume to Colmar the help of a rogue tank commander, played by Camaron Diaz, is enlisted. Diaz's character promises to help with her Sherman tanks as long as there aren't any 'negative waves'.
              Originally Posted by Martin Schenkel

              Of course, the Germans will have to send in their own elite all female unit, the vaunted 69th Independant Infantry Battalion, at which point vicious 'hand-to-hand' fighting ensues. And don't forget the slow-motion shots of the US all female Battalion running up the beach, after emerging from the water.
              LOL guys.

              I think the real battle will be behind the scenes as the women slug it out for the main part! As since Julia Roberts Ashley Judge are doing the fighting, BDUs should consist of skinny bikinis, or nothing at all. Accuracy would be reduced to if the director got good high res shots of various areas as the women dodged bullets and jumped into craters.

              Seriously, as Maddog stated, we can't really look to Hollywood for accuracy. Black Hawk Down, though a nice movie, was a major let down. The director completely abandoned accuracy in favor for drama. I thought there were several defining moments in the battle that were left out.

              Battles are very confusing, with many things happening at once. To accurately portray an engagement, one has to be able to re-create all the complex emotions and simultaneous events that shaped the battle. Leaving out certain parts usually results in failure. Actors might come close, but I don't think Hollywood can truly replicate the fear of dying and killing people. Bullets penetrating a body in real life sound worse than the almost clean thump heard in movies. Fear, the smell of burning flesh & blood, gore, seeing your friends torn apart, and the almost primal behavior that emerges to ensure survival can be duplicated unless you are in that environment.

              Hollywood struggles to appease the masses, who don't understand war, and to some degree, might not want to. Those that study war might not find movies, or even most documentaries entertaining, as you become overwhelmed mentally correcting errors. You know how it is;

              "RUIZ WAS IN THE CONVOY YOU DOPE!"

              or

              "THAT WAS MONTGOMERY NOT ALEXANDER YOU WEED!"

              Knowledge can really hamper your entertainment options.
              "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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              • #8
                I agree, there must be made compromisses to make a story work in a movie.

                You only need to read a book, and then watch the movie that is based on a book. What can be written in one sentence in a book is often impossible to display in a movie.

                Display reality is the exact opposite - just look the opening scene of Private Ryan. What took the half day in reality - from the landing til they reached the bunkers - was only a quarter hour in the movie.

                But IMO there is a clear difference between a compromisse and total corruption of history to feed the money machine. So I always prefer a Schwarzenegger movie or my Buffy DVD collection instead of U-571 or Pearl Harbour. It is pure entertainment and doesn't annoy me pseudo facts.
                Last edited by Scipio; 05 Oct 02, 17:55.
                Resistance is futile!
                My little company

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                • #9
                  I still don't like Saving Private Ryan
                  Now listening too;
                  - Russell Robertson, ruining whatever credibility my football team once had.

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                  • #10
                    Why ? No Russian's in the movie.

                    For the hot babes fighting each other. It should be done in a field of jello, spraying whipped cream at each other

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