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  • Do You Agree With this Statement?

    The uprising in Iraq presents the best opportunity yet to seriously damage or destroy illegal anti-American militias in that country. They are out in force, they can be destroyed in large numbers. The insurgents achieved surprise and inflicted some initial losses, but this situation is better than another year of roadside bombs targetting individual Americans.

    The Tet Offensive in Vietnam pretty much wiped out Viet Cong and after its conclusion only North Vietnam's regular army continued to present a serious threat to the Americans. Viet Cong never really recovered.
    28
    Yes
    39.29%
    11
    No
    50.00%
    14
    Undecided
    10.71%
    3
    Last edited by MonsterZero; 11 Apr 04, 13:19.

    "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
    --Frederick II, King of Prussia

  • #2
    Originally posted by MonsterZero
    The Tet Offensive in Vietnam pretty much wiped out Viet Cong and after its conclusion only North Korea's regular army continued to present a serious threat to the Americans. Viet Cong never really recovered.
    When was North Korea's regular army ever in Vietnam?
    I have no problem at all with being proved wrong. Especially when being proved wrong leaves the world a better place, than being proved right...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JAMiAM
      When was North Korea's regular army ever in Vietnam?
      Hehe, sorry. I meant NVA, the North Vietnam Army.

      "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
      --Frederick II, King of Prussia

      Comment


      • #4
        I agreed because this will be easier to identify hostiles when an insurgences is going on as apposed to when its peacefull. Becasue when its peacful the US will just be blamed for killing/capturing civilians but when an insurgence is going not as many of these acussations can be thrown at the US and they get kill/capture the ones involved in the insurgence.
        Last edited by SoccerDJ; 10 Apr 04, 16:08.

        Thanks for looking!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SoccerDJ
          I agreed because this will be easier to identify hostiles when and insurgences is going on as apposed to when its peacefull. Becasue when its peacful the US will just be blamed for killing/capturing civilians but when an insurgence is going not as many of these acussations can be thrown at the US and they get kill/capture the ones involved in the insurgence.
          And that's why the US is bombing mosques again? Hell, great! We know that everybody that is a muslim is a fanatic and therefore a hostile!
          "A platoon of Chinese tanks viciously attacked a Soviet harvester,
          which was peacefully working a field near the Soviet-Chinese border.
          The harvester returned fire and upon destroying the enemy
          returned to its home base."

          Comment


          • #6
            Uh?? Im not sure how you got that out of my post, please tell what do you mean??

            Thanks for looking!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MonsterZero
              The uprising in Iraq presents the best opportunity yet to seriously damage or destroy illegal anti-American militias in that country.
              I agree it's a good time. Don't know how 'illegal' the militias are though. About as illegal as the French Resistance, or the US invasion of Iraq.

              Comment


              • #8
                The Tet Offensive failed to destroy the enemy's will to resist. This allowed them to outlast the US. That was all they needed.

                The Iraq situation depends on similar conditions. The real question is whether or not this offensive or our strategy will break the desire of the Iraqi people to resist our efforts. If the answer is no, this operation, and those to follow might be useless.

                Whether we know it or not, the only people weapons benefit is the Iraqi militia. We can not achieve our objectives through force. I hope those in power appreciate this and see force as a negative instrument to be used as rarely as possible.
                "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Deltapooh
                  The Tet Offensive failed to destroy the enemy's will to resist. This allowed them to outlast the US. That was all they needed.

                  The Iraq situation depends on similar conditions. The real question is whether or not this offensive or our strategy will break the desire of the Iraqi people to resist our efforts. If the answer is no, this operation, and those to follow might be useless.

                  Whether we know it or not, the only people weapons benefit is the Iraqi militia. We can not achieve our objectives through force. I hope those in power appreciate this and see force as a negative instrument to be used as rarely as possible.
                  If this were the statement for me to vote, I would have put "yes"... but for monster0's original, ... sorry, buddy, it was a "no"..
                  Attn to ALL my opponents:

                  If you sent me your turn and after 24 hours, you still did not get anything from me, please be sure to post in the forum to ask for what is going on.

                  Remember, I ALWAYS reply within 24 hours, even if I do NOT have time to play my turn, in which case I will at least send you email to tell you that I will have to play it later, but I DO receive your turn.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ER_Chaser
                    If this were the statement for me to vote, I would have put "yes"... but for monster0's original, ... sorry, buddy, it was a "no"..

                    What he said
                    Not lip service, nor obsequious homage to superiors, nor servile observance of forms and customs...the Australian army is proof that individualism is the best and not the worst foundation upon which to build up collective discipline - General Monash

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MonsterZero
                      The uprising in Iraq presents the best opportunity yet to seriously damage or destroy illegal anti-American militias in that country. They are out in force, they can be destroyed in large numbers. The insurgents achieved surprise and inflicted some initial losses, but this situation is better than another year of roadside bombs targetting individual Americans.

                      The Tet Offensive in Vietnam pretty much wiped out Viet Cong and after its conclusion only North Korea's regular army continued to present a serious threat to the Americans. Viet Cong never really recovered.
                      The Tet Offensive in Vietnam pretty much wiped out Viet Cong and after its conclusion only North Korea's regular army continued to present a serious threat to the Americans. Viet Cong never really recovered

                      If the Vietnamese had been Muslims, surrounded by Muslims and had had an anti-Western media network like AL-Jazeera acting as a defacto Ayatollah, then the VC may have grown stronger(ie martyrdom). The situation now is much more dangerous!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The question is, whether America wants a friend in the region or not. If not, you can even nuke them, if yes, when killing, bombing is not the best way. My problem is I cannot see good way in Iraq now...
                        a brain cell

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I voted undecided, which is not like me normally. From a purely military point of view there is of course merit to the US when a hit and run force decides to stand and fight. Counter side is that inflicts huge damage on the urban population and inflames passions even higher.

                          Comparison with Vietnam? IMO the situation is in some respects worse now. In SV there was a large segment of the population actively pro American, still is I believe. There was a regular SV Army, which was a mixed bag to be sure, but it did have at least some combat efficient units.

                          In Iraq there are no actively pro American forces in the Field. The police are there for the money and run away once the insurgents tell them to. Sure I know there are some Iraqis alongside the US forces but they look like a collection of individuals. There are no active fighting formations.

                          The only thing that holds back more Iraqis from being against the Occupation is that when the US forces leave a Civil War with widespread chaos will be inevitable outcome.

                          On June 30th the US is committed to handing over power to an Iraqi administration. Trouble is none of the potential candidates has what it takes to rally Iraq together as a coherent political entity.

                          What the US needs to do now is look around for an Iraqi whom the public know can restore order, who has experience in handling Shia revolts and can placate the Sunnis. Maybe even someone who can cut a deal with the Kurds. Perhaps somebody familiar to his own people, yet well known on the international stage as well. A man respected by some but feared by many might be the best bet.
                          Anybody got any ideas?
                          http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wolfe Tone

                            What the US needs to do now is look around for an Iraqi whom the public know can restore order, who has experience in handling Shia revolts and can placate the Sunnis. Maybe even someone who can cut a deal with the Kurds. Perhaps somebody familiar to his own people, yet well known on the international stage as well. A man respected by some but feared by many might be the best bet.
                            Anybody got any ideas?
                            Yeah i think they have a bloke called Saddam, he supported the US against Iran he was even trusted so much he was supplied with WMD's he got into a bit of trouble when the Cold War ended and alliances changed tho so maybe he is not suitable for the job.
                            Not lip service, nor obsequious homage to superiors, nor servile observance of forms and customs...the Australian army is proof that individualism is the best and not the worst foundation upon which to build up collective discipline - General Monash

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SoccerDJ
                              Uh?? Im not sure how you got that out of my post, please tell what do you mean??
                              Well, what I meant was that the first action of the new "offensive" of the US now was to bomb a mosque and you said that thanks to the insurgency you can now easier destinquish between friend or foe. --> that lead to my comment
                              My statement above has to be seen very sarcastic/cynical, it seems I failed (again) to make this clear enough.

                              Hope that made things a little clearer.
                              "A platoon of Chinese tanks viciously attacked a Soviet harvester,
                              which was peacefully working a field near the Soviet-Chinese border.
                              The harvester returned fire and upon destroying the enemy
                              returned to its home base."

                              Comment

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