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  • Haiti Rebels

    Body language, swagger, self-confidence displayed by troops tell you about the quality of an army as much as the quality of their weapons and gear.

    IMHO Aristide won't be able to stop those rebels. I hope for his sake he's got a helicopter standing by at his palace.


    "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
    --Frederick II, King of Prussia

  • #2
    that's still to be seen, so far there were no real battles, just some police station were attacked while the capital is defended by Aristide loyal troops. Even thouh Aristide will lose in the end because he has lost all international support it can still get really nasty should the rebels attack.
    "The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

    Henry Alfred Kissinger

    Comment


    • #3
      Since they have to live there when he loses, I think that alot of these 'loyal troops' will change sides when it comes to it. At the least some will not put up very much of a fight.


      Goblin
      Mega Campaign Screaming Eagles and Das Reich Design Team Member
      DAS REICH CAMPAIGN, and THE SPWaW ICON GUIDE AVAILABLE AT: The SP:WaW Depot
      In difficult ground, press on. In encircled ground, devise strategems. In death ground, fight.

      Comment


      • #4
        loyal troops, what loyal troops? aristide has fled to panama now....guess its over now and the victors can start to plunder.
        French Soldier: You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts.

        Comment


        • #5
          I wonder what is going to happen now. These guys are not exactly home grown me thinks....
          "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tim McBride
            I wonder what is going to happen now...
            Tim McBride will design a ACOW scenario called "Aristide's Last Stand". Small scale skirmishes, one meter per hex.

            "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
            --Frederick II, King of Prussia

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MonsterZero
              Tim McBride will design a ACOW scenario called "Aristide's Last Stand". Small scale skirmishes, one meter per hex.
              LOL, I actually did design a Haiti scenario a few years ago. 11km per hex
              "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tim McBride
                I wonder what is going to happen now. These guys are not exactly home grown me thinks....
                Unfortunately, long term stability and democracy will be one of the things that will not happen. All the countries who are lining up to intervene in Haiti either don't want to be involved, or have other motives. The people of Haiti, like those of Iraq, and countless countries in Africa and elsewhere, will be more committed to the ideal of democracy instead of the process that establishes the conditions they love. The international community will remained engaged until after the first elections, which will be rushed through, and with draw.

                The situation will once again deteriorate because leaders will substitute the checks-n-balances necessary to maintain democracy with the easier more certain instruments of brutality and oppression. Some group will get pissed, call themselves freedom fighters, start another uprising, and we'll be back at square one, just with a different date.

                It can take ten years or more to establish the preliminary foundation of a stable trustworthy government, which is required for a nation to stand on it's own. It could take another fifty years of close support to permanently establish the kind of trust in a system that would allow it to withstand the many challenges that lie ahead. Throughout that time period, the people's resolve to maintain peace, order, and a single type of government must endure many issues that could encourage change. Establishing democracy might be one of man's most difficult challenges.

                So the story will be the same. A few years from now, Haiti will hold another election. Government leaders and people who lack confidence will turn on each for some reason, and unrest and violence will ensue. Time and again, Americans, and so many others forget the blood and sweat that runs deep in the history of our institution. Thus, we are doomed to fail.
                "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MonsterZero
                  Body language, swagger, self-confidence displayed by troops tell you about the quality of an army as much as the quality of their weapons and gear.

                  IMHO Aristide won't be able to stop those rebels. I hope for his sake he's got a helicopter standing by at his palace.


                  It is true, these guys seem to be well armed and confident, nice shiny camo's. looking a lot like merc's more than rebels. It raises a hell of a lot of questions in my books.
                  Not lip service, nor obsequious homage to superiors, nor servile observance of forms and customs...the Australian army is proof that individualism is the best and not the worst foundation upon which to build up collective discipline - General Monash

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Aristide is in Central Africa Republic, if it is the good name in English, in Bangui the capital. Rumors say that he is ready to go to South Africa.
                    The Americans are sending 200 Marines to Haiti, the French are going to send 200 soldiers and 100 gendarmes (MP’s). The Canadians already have troops who hold the port.

                    LaPalice.
                    Monsieur de La Palice est mort
                    Mort devant Pavie.
                    Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
                    Il était encore en vie...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Humm...

                      I don't trust France, I smell something fishy going on...

                      I oppose any plan to send US toops to Haiti. Clinton did that, now, why should Bush do the same thing? Haiti holds no strategic interests for me, and if Florida is so concerned about overflowing refugees, then by all means, send them back to Haiti, we've done it before.

                      Dan
                      Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                      "Aim small, miss small."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Deltapooh
                        Unfortunately, long term stability and democracy will be one of the things that will not happen. All the countries who are lining up to intervene in Haiti either don't want to be involved, or have other motives. The people of Haiti, like those of Iraq, and countless countries in Africa and elsewhere, will be more committed to the ideal of democracy instead of the process that establishes the conditions they love. The international community will remained engaged until after the first elections, which will be rushed through, and with draw.

                        The situation will once again deteriorate because leaders will substitute the checks-n-balances necessary to maintain democracy with the easier more certain instruments of brutality and oppression. Some group will get pissed, call themselves freedom fighters, start another uprising, and we'll be back at square one, just with a different date.

                        It can take ten years or more to establish the preliminary foundation of a stable trustworthy government, which is required for a nation to stand on it's own. It could take another fifty years of close support to permanently establish the kind of trust in a system that would allow it to withstand the many challenges that lie ahead. Throughout that time period, the people's resolve to maintain peace, order, and a single type of government must endure many issues that could encourage change. Establishing democracy might be one of man's most difficult challenges.

                        So the story will be the same. A few years from now, Haiti will hold another election. Government leaders and people who lack confidence will turn on each for some reason, and unrest and violence will ensue. Time and again, Americans, and so many others forget the blood and sweat that runs deep in the history of our institution. Thus, we are doomed to fail.
                        LoL Deltapooh, the US has determined that what the Haitians need is good old-fashioned voodoo leadership, and are working to appoint a "Council of Elders".
                        U.S. Arranging 'Elders Council' to Run Haiti

                        Mar 1, 9:59 AM (ET)

                        WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States scrambled on Monday to create a "council of elders" to run Haiti, organize early elections and disarm rebels after Washington pressured President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to quit in the face of a deadly revolt, a U.S. official said.
                        "There's going to be a tripartite commission, made up of the opposition, the government and the international community, who will form a sort of 'council of elders,"' said a State Department official, who asked not to be named.

                        Much less work to just lay down some payola to some mercs to destabilize the regime, then send in the Marines to oust the old leadership every few years, so that we can install a new strongman, rather than go through the work of supporting an actual democratic government that might start thinking for itself.
                        I have no problem at all with being proved wrong. Especially when being proved wrong leaves the world a better place, than being proved right...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cheetah772
                          Humm...

                          I don't trust France, I smell something fishy going on...

                          I oppose any plan to send US toops to Haiti. Clinton did that, now, why should Bush do the same thing? Haiti holds no strategic interests for me, and if Florida is so concerned about overflowing refugees, then by all means, send them back to Haiti, we've done it before.

                          Dan
                          you never trust anything exept good, old fashioned conservatives.
                          French Soldier: You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Seems that he was kidnapped. Of course, the official line is that he resigned and that we have the documents to prove it. Hope they are better forgeries than the Niger Yellowcake docs, or that they weren't made under duress.
                            "President Aristide, you can either sign the paper in front of you, then take a little airplane flight, or one of those "rebel bullets" from my Glock here, might just find itself lodged behind your ear."

                            CNN has something of the story. Scroll down to the juicy part where two members of Congress, and Aristide's lawyer all confirm - despite McClellan's lies - the story that supports he was kidnapped.
                            Rebels enter police headquarters in Haitian capital

                            PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti (CNN) -- Greeted by hundreds of cheering supporters, heavily armed Haitian rebels drove into Port-au-Prince on Monday, entering the headquarters of the national police, the stronghold of supporters of former President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

                            Word of the so-called victory caravan came as Bush administration officials strongly denied reports that Aristide had been kidnapped by U.S. soldiers and was being held against his will in the Central African Republic.

                            Crowds of supporters swelled, marching past the palace while cheering and chanting. The police headquarters is near the presidential palace where U.S. Marine peacekeepers are stationed.

                            The rebels -- who had opposed Aristide's presidency -- said they would not visit the palace. They reiterated rebel leader Guy Philippe's pledge to support interim President Boniface Alexandre and the nation's democratic process.

                            There was no sign of pro-Aristide forces who had fought against the rebels until his resignation and departure for Africa on Sunday.

                            U.S., Canadian and French peacekeeping troops were fanning out in Port-au-Prince to secure important areas, as U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Monday he's pleased with the international community's quick response to the crisis.

                            "The looting and violence has gone down somewhat overnight," Powell said. "We'll have to see what daylight brings."

                            A day after Aristide left the country, Haitians awoke Monday with a new interim president and with Aristide in Bangui, the capital of the Central African Republic.

                            Claims of Aristide abduction denied
                            On Sunday, Haitian Prime Minister Yvon Neptune announced that Aristide had resigned and had left the nation for an unknown destination. His address was followed by the installation of Alexandre, Haiti's Supreme Court chief justice, as the president of a transitional government, as mandated by Haiti's constitution.

                            On Monday, African-American activist Randall Robinson said Aristide had called him on a smuggled cell phone and told him that he did not leave office voluntarily. Robinson said Aristide told him he was "abducted" by U.S. soldiers in "full battle gear" early Sunday and was being held "incommunicado" in the Central African Republic.

                            White House spokesman Scott McClellan described the claim as "complete nonsense." "Conspiracy theories do nothing to help the Haitian people move forward to a better, more free and more prosperous future," McClellan said Monday.

                            Powell also denied the kidnapping claim. "We didn't force him onto the airplane," Powell said. "He went on the airplane willingly and that's the truth."

                            The kidnapping accusation also was reported Monday by Rep. Maxine Waters, D-California, and Aristide's attorney, Ira Kurzman. Waters said she had spoken with Aristide by phone and he had told her a story similar to Robinson's.

                            Waters said that Aristide also had told his story to Rep. Charles Rangle, D-New York.

                            "What you need to ask is this: Would [Aristide] call three different people -- two members of the United States Congress and tell us that he has been kidnapped -- that a coup d'état has taken place -- unless he believed that?" Waters said. "And do you think we would make this information up?"

                            Aristide attorney Kurzman said the story originated with groundskeepers and housekeepers at Aristide's home in Haiti.

                            "The State Department refused to put me in contact with my client," Kurzman said. "I have found out today everything that was my worst nightmare. Today I have learned that the president of the Republic of Haiti was kidnapped by U.S. Marines, taken forcibly from his home, put on an American aircraft," he said.

                            An Associated Press report filed early Monday from Central African Republic included no mention of U.S. troops accompanying Aristide and his wife during their arrival in Bangui. (Full story)

                            Speaking on the radio in the African nation on Monday, Aristide said that opposition rebels who pushed for his ouster "chopped down the tree of peace, but it will grow again."

                            The communications minister of the Central African Republic said the abduction claim is "absolutely false." The minister, Parfait Mbaye, said Aristide had been granted permission to land in the country after Aristide himself -- as well as the U.S. and French governments -- requested it.

                            Ken Robinson, CNN national security analyst, said the claims are dubious.

                            "When he landed in the Central African Republic, he addressed the nation on radio and he made no mention of this," Robinson said. "And now all of a sudden he's making late calls in this regard. I think it's pretty specious."

                            Powell rebuffs criticism
                            Meanwhile, Powell rejected criticism that accused the Bush administration of waiting too long to take action in Haiti. He expressed hope for a peaceful and democratic future for the Caribbean nation.

                            The United States, Powell said, has "ways of talking to the various rebel leaders and [is] pleased that at least so far they've said they're not interested in violence any more and will put down their arms."

                            Aristide -- the first democratically elected president in Haiti's 200 years of independence -- left office after a bloody revolt by armed rebels spread from the north of the country and threatened a siege of Port-au-Prince. Aristide's current term as president was to last until 2006, but his political opponents claimed the election was fraudulent and demanded nothing less than his ouster.

                            In an effort to stabilize the capital, more than 200 Marines had been deployed to Port-au-Prince by Monday morning, and the first contingent of 50 French forces arrived shortly after 7 a.m. A small contingent of Canadian troops is already in the city.

                            A total of about 130 French troops are expected to arrive in Haiti on Monday "to ensure the security of French citizens," a spokesman for President Jacques Chirac said. Another 150 French soldiers will deploy from Martinique in the next few days, French officials said.

                            On Sunday, with armed gangs roaming Port-au-Prince, President Bush ordered the Marines deployed to the country and said, "I urge the people of Haiti to reject violence and give this break from the past a chance to work and the United States is prepared to help."

                            Shortly after the Marines landed in Haiti later in the day, the U.N. Security Council voted unanimously to send a multinational peacekeeping force to Haiti for up to three months.

                            CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, Elise Labott, Barbara Starr, Lucia Newman, Richard Roth and Ingrid Arnesen contributed to this report.
                            I have no problem at all with being proved wrong. Especially when being proved wrong leaves the world a better place, than being proved right...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cheetah772
                              Humm...

                              I don't trust France, I smell something fishy going on...

                              I oppose any plan to send US toops to Haiti. Clinton did that, now, why should Bush do the same thing? Haiti holds no strategic interests for me, and if Florida is so concerned about overflowing refugees, then by all means, send them back to Haiti, we've done it before.

                              Dan
                              Really, you don't want to go to Haiti ? And me who thought that the Americans were specialized in the liberation of countries of their bad dictators...
                              Anyway, it is too late, there are already American troops in Haiti. And some French too.

                              LaPalice.
                              Monsieur de La Palice est mort
                              Mort devant Pavie.
                              Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
                              Il était encore en vie...

                              Comment

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