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‘But Americans Aren’t Getting the New Jobs’

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  • ‘But Americans Aren’t Getting the New Jobs’

    ‘But Americans Aren’t Getting the New Jobs’
    by Tibor R. Machan
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/machan/machan41.html

    For me the hate-filled outcry that jobs are leaving the country – however convoluted that concept really is – has always called to mind the fact that many who voice it are also supposed to be humanitarians. I have in mind the likes of Ralph Nader and Dick Gephardt, champions of the downtrodden, enemies of big corporations, you name it. Those on the Left, at least, who worry about jobs are ideologically committed to liberating the workers of the world, not the workers of Detroit or Fresno, USA.

    And, indeed, if one is concerned about lack of jobs, it makes little sense to decry that condition only for Americans. Why are Americans so special that they, but people around the globe do not, deserve jobs?

    Fact is, the more jobs that get to be exported, the better off the world is becoming, which also means fewer people will wish to come here to find jobs, which has been the routine for about two centuries and which has upset some folks, mostly with the same mindset as the ones who fret about the loss of jobs. Too many immigrants are flooding our shores! Too many aliens are coming here! So, OK, if you don’t like this, making work available abroad should delight you.

    There is also something economically amiss with thinking of the creation of jobs abroad as some kind of zero-sum game – as if the folks abroad never bought anything that is made by the folks here. We know that the bulk of the world goes to American movies, for example, buys music made by Americans, buys American made or assembled cars, etc., and so forth.

    In fact the very idea of lining up all the American made stuff on one side and the foreign made stuff on the other has become impossible because nearly everything is composed of a bunch of parts that are made all over the place, with no way to tell anymore where and who made them. It is difficult to imagine people going to Wal-Mart or Macys or any other shop to pick up socks, TVs, PCs, shirts, blouses or gloves and making sure that these were made at home.

    And if they were made "at home," suppose they were made in another state – would the customers then be traitors to their own states, counties or cities for buying the stuff not made where they live? Oh, my God, what nonsense!

    If there is a sphere of human life that’s in principle truly without borders, it’s commerce. And that has been true of not just centuries but over nearly all of human history. Commerce has, indeed, been mostly responsible for much of the peaceful exploration of the globe, for seeking out new regions where to buy and sell stuff. Very different from conquest!

    Even just the thought of trying to restrict the benefits of commerce to any area of it whatsoever galls, since no one can tell what exactly would need to be done – the only wasteful job-creation that would entail is more police and military who would engage in an utterly futile, hopeless effort to keep jobs local.

    Often I am eager to seek out the line of reasoning that might have led folks to reach conclusions other than those I reach about things, because I might, miracle of miracles, be wrong and, in any case, I do like to learn of honest differences in viewpoints. But this line of thinking – America first in jobs – disgusts me to no end, considering, especially, that this country perhaps more than any other is filled with people who or whose ancestors were anything but Americans not all that long ago. I find it difficult to fathom, in any kind of dispassionate, charitable way, that thoughtful Americans could think along such lines, begrudging foreigners their chance at a decent life. This kind of "If they get a job, we must lose a job" thinking is so Neanderthal, so out to lunch, especially in this era of modern economic theory – starting not even with Adam Smith but with many before him who knew well and good that in trade all the parties involved are winners – that my little hope that the world might advance a step or two toward reason and peace and justice is nearly shattered and I am very tempted to turn into a misanthrope. Problem with that is that what such absence of reason, peace and justice hurts most is millions and millions of human beings, the very ones who often do such thick-headed non-thinking.

    Alas, I suppose one needs to just push on and rebut this stuff day in and out.
    "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

  • #2
    So what do you all think? Should jobs stay here or support a free market for goods and jobs?
    "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Tim McBride
      So what do you all think? Should jobs stay here or support a free market for goods and jobs?
      IMO, until we equalize trade with China, Taiwan, etc., we should try and keep jobs in America. We are importing way too much cheap crapola that could be produced here so we could pay premium pricese for cheap crapola,...it's the American Way!

      The one caveat would be those jobs that just can't be filled here for whatever reason. If Americans aren't willing to work for the wages offered, then by all means, those jobs should be outsourced. HOWEVER, I do NOT believe in any kind of tax break or incentive for businesses moving jobs overseas.

      It's a very tenuous balance, one in which the US has not been able to maintain for many years, and we are really feeling the brunt of it now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tim McBride
        ‘But Americans Aren’t Getting the New Jobs’
        This kind of "If they get a job, we must lose a job" thinking is so Neanderthal, so out to lunch, especially in this era of modern economic theory – starting not even with Adam Smith but with many before him who knew well and good that in trade all the parties involved are winners – that my little hope that the world might advance a step or two toward reason and peace and justice is nearly shattered and I am very tempted to turn into a misanthrope..."
        "that in trade all the parties involved are winners" This basic economic fact is known to used car dealers through out the world. It's modern economic theory.
        And we are here as on a darkling plain
        Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
        Where ignorant armies clash by night.


        Matthew Arnold

        Comment


        • #5
          Screw China. Free-Market but not to aid in countries that could be fighting with us in the near future (Could be anyone). I say we bide our time until things settle down a little with this whole War on Terrorism and Iraq also.

          You never know who you can trust.
          Furthermore, they had calculated that if 25,000 of them died for every one of us, they would finish us first, for they were many and we were but few.
          -Hernan Cortez

          The Pacific is our ocean. The power that rules the Pacific, therefore, is the power that rules the world. That power is and will forever be the American Republic.
          -Senator Albert J. Beveridge, 56th Congress

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cortez
            Screw China. Free-Market but not to aid in countries that could be fighting with us in the near future (Could be anyone). I say we bide our time until things settle down a little with this whole War on Terrorism and Iraq also.

            You never know who you can trust.

            Post Cold War paranoia?

            Comment


            • #7
              I think that's most of it.
              Furthermore, they had calculated that if 25,000 of them died for every one of us, they would finish us first, for they were many and we were but few.
              -Hernan Cortez

              The Pacific is our ocean. The power that rules the Pacific, therefore, is the power that rules the world. That power is and will forever be the American Republic.
              -Senator Albert J. Beveridge, 56th Congress

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cortez
                Screw China. Free-Market but not to aid in countries that could be fighting with us in the near future (Could be anyone). I say we bide our time until things settle down a little with this whole War on Terrorism and Iraq also.

                You never know who you can trust.
                Do you want to know how to make somebody reluctant to go to war with you? Give them a job and a home to go to which has clean hot and cold running water, uninterrupted electricity, maybe a satellite dish for their TV and a washing machine. When the average person has this sort of standard of living they will not be lining up to to shoot you (unless you try and take it away from them).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Prester John
                  Do you want to know how to make somebody reluctant to go to war with you? Give them a job and a home to go to which has clean hot and cold running water, uninterrupted electricity, maybe a satellite dish for their TV and a washing machine. When the average person has this sort of standard of living they will not be lining up to to shoot you (unless you try and take it away from them).
                  I don't know about that.

                  By giving China what it wants from us, we may actually give China a chance to flex her muscles unintentionally. It's the catch of the free trade. By trading with a potential enemy, in some ways, that enemy may soon take the advantage of free trade to his benefit.

                  No one wants to give China a chance to rise to the occasion especially if it means losing the edge over it.

                  Dan
                  Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                  "Aim small, miss small."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cheetah772
                    I don't know about that.

                    By giving China what it wants from us, we may actually give China a chance to flex her muscles unintentionally. It's the catch of the free trade. By trading with a potential enemy, in some ways, that enemy may soon take the advantage of free trade to his benefit.

                    No one wants to give China a chance to rise to the occasion especially if it means losing the edge over it.

                    Dan
                    Do you intend to provoke other nations with an intentional policy of keeping them in the second or third world? Keep the US jackboot on their neck and keep them in the back of the bus and in their own waiting rooms? A policy like this will earn you rightful derision because it is equality among nations that will end conflict and inequality which encourages it.
                    Last edited by Prester John; 28 Feb 04, 01:46.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Prester John
                      Do you intend to provoke other nations with an intentional policy of keeping them in the second or third world? Keep the US jackboot on their neck and keep them in the back of the bus and in their own waiting rooms? A policy like this will earn you rightful derision because it is equality among nations that will end conflict and inequality which encourages it.
                      No. There will always be inequality in this world. Do you honestly think China will be a benevolent superpower and adhering to all international argreements and laws? Then you're even more naive than I originally thought.

                      China can climb on the economic ladder, she just have to do it without our help and do the hard work herself.

                      After all, the great powers throughout history have always been very selective of who to pick as trading partners. Are you saying America should be different in this respect just because we're living in 21st century and having instantaneous communications?

                      We do need to chose our allies more carefully. We still do trade with the EU and some other countries as well.

                      This time, I feel America needs to link the political issues with the free trade out of a need to pick the right kind of friends we want to be on our side.

                      It doesn't help if we do a lot of free trade with France or Germany or Russia, and they chose to oppose America (from my prespective, of course).

                      I would rather do more of trading with the United Kingdoms than China or France or Germany. I would like to give more trade benefits to Poland and other Eastern European nations who helped America in Iraq.

                      It's not just Iraqi thing, but we need to be more mindful of political situations when we trade with the other countries. We just cannot separate the trade and political issues, in many ways, they're already linked. America needs to take this into account otherwise she might get stuck with choices she may not be pleased with.

                      This is the realpolitik I am talking about.

                      Dan
                      Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                      "Aim small, miss small."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cheetah772
                        No. There will always be inequality in this world. Do you honestly think China will be a benevolent superpower and adhering to all international argreements and laws? Then you're even more naive than I originally thought.
                        Like the US? (Anybody want to buy a landmine?)

                        As far as I can see, you want to keep clean water and electricity all to yourself, and condemn anybody who sells a water purifier or power station to a third world country because it will bring them a little closer to the US's standard of living. And anybody who gets closer has to be kicked off the ladder of progress or they will become a threat to your empire.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Free trade is just as necessary as anything else, air, water, it is what free men will want to do. It is good. It is natural.

                          The western world is in a traumatic situation. We could all argue about which country is benfitting and which is suffering from a present situation.

                          These are luxury problems. Almost every day I meet people who have invented or or are marketing new smart devices to fix some particular problem.

                          One thing that has hit me: first I'd like to say what is really making me angry; I belong to the percentile of this world who pays more in tax or fees than anybody.- That's a fact, and I don't particularily take pleasure. First to the town, then to the county, the to the state and then to EU, U-land help - yes, I pay ridiculous amounts personally to the EU budget (=in my twisted mind to French farmers, great producers of high quality products, while our agriculture, deregulated before our EU-entry, just dies off for lack of competetivness). The list of givers pro capita is Sweden, Holland, Germany, then takers. It makes me sick. Why is nice warm cultural countries like France or Italy or Greece in need of Swedish money to survive. Lately I read seome French ot Belgian politician said, Swedish forests were to be seen as a European asset... Please. OK ,this is a side track.

                          The thing is; simple realities, simple work like gardening, nursing, plumbing is getting ever more complex and technical. By taxing work high (even the US is entering that bad track) simple jobs will be too expensive to pay for. Complex jobs will be cheap in Indiaor other countries. The result is, noone will be able to perform simple jobs locally. It will be to expensive. You have all seen this already, you rather fix the plumbing yourself, or have the car fixed by your neighbour rather than the workshop.

                          In any nation, a certain percentage of the population will do simple jobs, and will not be able to evolve higher. All peole do not have the capacity for solving diffenretial equations. The competion from abroad will be very tough. We thus move towards a point where the mere notion of the nation will be questioned. The big question is about selfishness. The issue is between creating or giving out welfare. We will have to define borders. Is it country? Is it something else? Remember that during WW2, German industries like IG Farben were paying dividends to American shareholders.

                          I would really like to see the emergence of an Elders Council, people who by virtue of their virtue could lead or direct us mortals onto good paths. Personally, I have no clue as to what should be done, but I see big clouds forming up ahead.
                          "You can't change the rules in the middle of the game."
                          "Hey, you just made that rule up."


                          Heil Dicke Bertha!

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