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  • Medicare Bill

    Well it appears that Bush's sweeping medicare overhaul has passed, giving presciption drug coverage to all seniors...whether they need it or not. Some say that this bill tolls the end of medicare as we know it, that within two years the system will collapse. Others would disagree. So is this bill a good or a bad thing?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Priest
    Well it appears that Bush's sweeping medicare overhaul has passed, giving presciption drug coverage to all seniors...whether they need it or not. Some say that this bill tolls the end of medicare as we know it, that within two years the system will collapse. Others would disagree. So is this bill a good or a bad thing?
    You know when I look at Medicare issue, what I see is so complicated to figure out, I'd think I better stick with French bashing and hurdling conservative remarks all the day long. It sure shows how really dumb I am!

    As a proponent of free markets and capitalism, I think it's a bad thing to provide some coverage for the seniors, so I'd rather dump all of the entitlements out of the window. Just knock them out, even if that means ruining somebody's political career or life. The government's function is not to be a sort of nanny for everybody.

    Yeah, I know, pretty soon somebody here will accuse me of having no heart for such seniors. Fine, I'm willing to accept that, just as long all of the entitlements are thrown out completely.

    So, yes, I do feel this is really a bad thing for our government to sign off. This only proves how much bloated our beaurcacy has grown, no thanks to liberalism and cradle-to-grave theory.

    Dan
    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

    "Aim small, miss small."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Priest
      Well it appears that Bush's sweeping medicare overhaul has passed, giving presciption drug coverage to all seniors...whether they need it or not. Some say that this bill tolls the end of medicare as we know it, that within two years the system will collapse. Others would disagree. So is this bill a good or a bad thing?
      Can't really say. Someone should probably read the fine print however. How much does it cost?

      Originally posted by Cheetah772
      I'd rather dump all of the entitlements out of the window. Just knock them out, even if that means ruining somebody's political career or life.
      You're hardcore man.
      "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

      Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

      Comment


      • #4
        originally posted by Chuck

        You're hardcore man.
        And you're a real hardcore man as well, taking away my real hard-earned money just to cover somebody else's expenses without my premission...

        Dan
        Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

        "Aim small, miss small."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cheetah772
          And you're a real hardcore man as well, taking away my real hard-earned money just to cover somebody else's expenses without my premission...

          Dan
          No, you're taking away my hard-earned money. I never gave permission either.
          "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

          Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Chuck
            No, you're taking away my hard-earned money. I never gave permission either.
            Nah, the liberals don't have the right to complain anyway, I wouldn't want them to be accused of being un-american, now would I?

            Dan
            Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

            "Aim small, miss small."

            Comment


            • #7
              Back to the topic of the bill, who can really know the cost? It looks like John Kerry and Joe Lieberman ducked the vote... and they want to be President?
              "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

              Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chuck
                Back to the topic of the bill, who can really know the cost? It looks like John Kerry and Joe Lieberman ducked the vote... and they want to be President?
                Because if they blast the Medicare bill, then the seniors will get pissed off no matter how justified the blast may be. But if they nod and give their support to this bill, then they may just **** off some fiscally conservative Democrats, that is if there is such thing like that. It's really a no-win situation for these guys.

                I suspect that in the reality, a lot of Democrats and Republicans are worried that this bill will actually pass as opposed to merely giving alot of lip-service. I believe the only reason this bill got pushed through is because some party members jumped to the other side in order to get the votes needed to pass this whole thing altogether.

                By the way, I was talking about House of Representatives, not the Senate. Now in the Senate, it's a bit tricky, because a lot of Republicans actually support this kind of thing, so it will be interesting to watch what their reactions will be.

                Dan
                Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                "Aim small, miss small."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chuck
                  Back to the topic of the bill, who can really know the cost? It looks like John Kerry and Joe Lieberman ducked the vote... and they want to be President?
                  The real fear is the baby boomers, for decades now the boomers have paid for medicare now that we are starting to retire people are afraid that we will bankrupt the system.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Priest
                    The real fear is the baby boomers, for decades now the boomers have paid for medicare now that we are starting to retire people are afraid that we will bankrupt the system.
                    This is true, and read my comment above your post...

                    Dan
                    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                    "Aim small, miss small."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The main problem is that people are living too long and more medications are being made. Companies that make these medications spend tons of cash to invent these things and someone has to pay for it.

                      Originally posted by Cheetah772
                      Because if they blast the Medicare bill, then the seniors will get pissed off no matter how justified the blast may be. But if they nod and give their support to this bill, then they may just **** off some fiscally conservative Democrats, that is if there is such thing like that. It's really a no-win situation for these guys.
                      John Edwards voted against the bill. I'd support either Edwards, Gephardt, or maybe Dean for President. If John Kerry or Lieberman get nominated, I'll have to vote for Mickey Mouse or something.

                      I suspect that in the reality, a lot of Democrats and Republicans are worried that this bill will actually pass as opposed to merely giving alot of lip-service. I believe the only reason this bill got pushed through is because some party members jumped to the other side in order to get the votes needed to pass this whole thing altogether.

                      By the way, I was talking about House of Representatives, not the Senate. Now in the Senate, it's a bit tricky, because a lot of Republicans actually support this kind of thing, so it will be interesting to watch what their reactions will be.
                      I think it's a done deal. Bush just has to sign it and he says he will. Bush seems even more 'liberal' on domestic fiscal issues than Bill Clinton. It's really strange so many fiscal conservatives hated Bubba but love Shrub.
                      "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

                      Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes Dan I would have to agree with Chuck, this was a done deal a long time ago. Within the past few days I have heard that the congress was holding very long sessions just to get this bill out the door before Thanksgiving. A lot of people want this bill...badly.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Socialized Medicine

                          My view of socialized medicine has been transformed over the past 15 months. Since my wife was injured in an auto accident weíve had to fight with insurance companies over who is paying what, with doctors over which doctor to see first (and putting up with there petty professional jealousies) and with the attorney over just what they are being paid 30% for. I have had excellent insurance my whole life and am currently with the top rated company in the U.S. and you know what? They suck. I have heard stories from others about these experiences, but just thought they had bad luck. Itís not bad luck, the system is broken. Right now Iím starting to think that Hillary was right. As far as Iím concerned the doctors should be inducted into the U.S. Army tomorrow, a war time super tax put on the drug manufactures and all insurance companies nationalized. The American people are being scammed. Iíve never voted for a Democrat for president in 7 elections, but that is about to change. The most left wing Democrat is getting my vote next year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 06 Maestro
                            My view of socialized medicine has been transformed over the past 15 months. Since my wife was injured in an auto accident weíve had to fight with insurance companies over who is paying what, with doctors over which doctor to see first (and putting up with there petty professional jealousies) and with the attorney over just what they are being paid 30% for. I have had excellent insurance my whole life and am currently with the top rated company in the U.S. and you know what? They suck.

                            I have heard stories from others about these experiences, but just thought they had bad luck. Itís not bad luck, the system is broken. Right now Iím starting to think that Hillary was right. As far as Iím concerned the doctors should be inducted into the U.S. Army tomorrow, a war time super tax put on the drug manufactures and all insurance companies nationalized. The American people are being scammed. Iíve never voted for a Democrat for president in 7 elections, but that is about to change. The most left wing Democrat is getting my vote next year.
                            Sorry to hear about your wife's troubles this past year. Experience with Corporate America can often turn even the most conservative person into a die hard liberal. The rhetoric about free enterprise sounds good, but in reality it's just about a lot of people crawling all over each other to get as much wealth (power) as they can.

                            Despite the flaws with Capitalism, we shouldn't revert to Communism either. Communism has many flaws and is in many ways worse than Capitalism. Instead we should move toward a system of Market Socialism:

                            http://www.wiu.edu/users/miecon/wiu/yunker/postlang.htm

                            Oh, I should add that I didn't vote for the Democrats last time either. However I probably will this time.
                            Last edited by Chuck?; 26 Nov 03, 00:47.
                            "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

                            Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cheetah772
                              And you're a real hardcore man as well, taking away my real hard-earned money just to cover somebody else's expenses without my premission...
                              At least you can work. Most of the elderly can't put in 8h per day. Despite this, many of the seniors I know, including my grandfather continue to work with health problems that would have most of our generation screaming for morphine.

                              You are trying to pass the elderly off as thieves and freeloaders. The reality is much different. My grandfather has worked and paid taxes for more than fifty years. At 74, I still pick him up Monday's and Thursday mornings from his little crossing-guard job (reserved for former-police officers) to take him to his dialysis treatment. He, like other men laying in those chairs spent a lifetime working ten to twelve hours to provide for their family and make the world a better place. In the case of my grandfather, his doctor gives him to the greenlight to work because it is his only attachment to the independence he cherished.

                              Do you think the elderly want a handout? I've seen some go without special cream to prevent the pain of having giant needles stuck into their arms. Some go without basic necessities like food to stretch their small SS check and pay for medicine. I know one doctor who collects sample medications to hand out to his elderly patients. Many are required to take anti-depressants to deal with the reality of their situation.

                              Our senior citizens are not out begging for handouts, or trying to steal from today's working man. They simply don't have a choice. They can't work, require expensive treatments and medicines, and don't have noone to turn to for help, but the government. The assistance our sorry *ss government make them beg for doesn't go a long way to doing much. My grandparents are lucky, my family pulls together to cover the $1,000-$1,500 dollars per month in medical and living expensives they can't cover. (Don't mind, I see it as leasing a few more years with them around.) I know the elderly in their little community pulls together and share common medicines to help reduce cost.

                              I'm not trying to sell you on a sob story. I just have the feeling at times that Cheetah772, like others are out of touch with the realities of the situation. You talk about the government playing nanny. In reality, SS and Medicare is payment for the generation that babysitted us.

                              Having said all that, I oppose the Medicare prescription bill. Most of the seniors I know share that position. Many who are members of the AARP were shocked by their shift in policy. I don't know who they consulted, but I don't think it was their members!

                              The only people I think will benefit from this program are the insurance and pharmacautical companies. The $400,000,000,000.00 will be depleted by companies raising the prices of prescription cost, with insurances getting a piece of the action. This is nothing more than a bribe being paid to businessmen in exchange for support next year. The AARP's heads are probably hoping their endorsement will give them more of a say with the dominant Republican party. (At least that's how they will rationalize their decision to sell out members for power.)

                              I believe in the Medicare program and support prescription coverage. However, I don't believe this is an effort to help senior citizens. In the end, it might very well create huge problems for everyone including senior citizens.
                              "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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