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Foolishness to the Extreme

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  • Foolishness to the Extreme

    Forget the pictures of discrete, stealthy, professional CIA drug people who operate undercover in Colombia-as seen in Clear and Present Danger (Harisson Ford) and other motion pictures.

    In reality those people hang out, unarmed, bunched up, in a couple of Bogota's bars and everybody knows who they are and what they're doing in that dangerous country. All those people can be taken out with a pound of TNT and yesterday one of Columbia's drug lords finally did what those ops had been begging him to do.

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americ...sts/index.html
    Last edited by MonsterZero; 16 Nov 03, 13:45.

    "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
    --Frederick II, King of Prussia

  • #2
    It's not surprising. FARC is probably one of the most wealthy terrorist groups in the world today. Their decentralized narcotics operation has proven to be rather successful. Instead of one organization handling all aspects of operation, FARC and others contract out work. This allows them, and their contractors to focus on one responsibility.

    The attack yesterday illustrates just how confident FARC is becoming. They've been on a roll since 2000. They've intimidated the government into abandoning areas. Police officers are killed and tortured on a regular basis. If police do arrest a FARC member, there's a good chance the jail will get hit. Farmers who don't want to grow plants used for narcotics are given offers they can't refuse.

    It's only a matter of time before FARC elects to directly challenge American counter-narcotics operations. Right now, they are content with avoiding a serious confrontation with the US. However, within the next ten years or so, they'll likely decide to use heavy forces to protect drug shipments, and lanes.

    The US is not serious about it's war on drugs. We appear content with chasing down petty drug dealers. Stiffer drug sentences has clogged our justice system and prisons with a bunch of morons who are the lower echelon in the narcotic's network. (The lowest being the drug addicts.)
    I've lost count of the number of guys I know that is either in prison, has been to prison, or is well on their way toward prison, over drugs. I recall watching these officers cheer and hi-five each other as they arrested some a few years back. A few days later, those same cops were hi-fiving each other as they arrested another drug dealer. Years later, those same officers are still probably congradulating themselves.

    America has deteriorated to a point where it sees locking up over a million people as a shining example of the success of our system. No one bothers to wonder who really is the real leader, and where he lives. Those that do, are told to stand down..........

    Oh well, when one of our Coast Guard Vessels is sunk by the SSN Herion, maybe people will loose their fear of the head of the drug monster, and finally put it on the chopping block.
    "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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    • #3
      There is a very simple solution: no drug addicts, no drug mafia.
      So, how to prevent ppl from taking drugs and cure theaddicted? Not easy at all, but for starters: you don't cure a drug addicted by sending him to prison. But from what I know a guy who ruins himself to buy drugs and thereby ruins his health is punished more severely than a buisinessman who stole several million dollar from his firm (if he's done it creatively).
      "The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

      Henry Alfred Kissinger

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      • #4
        Money talks...
        "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

        Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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        • #5
          Hello,

          Personally for me, I feel that we should threaten Colombia with a single nuclear bomb, if it doesn't stop shipping the drugs to north, or do more in getting rid of the rebels. The rebels would scramble to save themselves, after all, in the criminal world, self-preservation is a must to acquire otherwise a criminal will be thrown to the wolves with little or no mercy.

          Maybe a nuclear bomb is a little too extreme, however, we must punish Colombia with something that will even make the rebels fear us. I remember when Pablo Escabor, the drug lord of Medellin Cartel, ordered a couple of airliner jets blown up in the air, America was forced to take action. We hunted Escabor with absolutely no mercy. It took guts to do that, because Escabor was a billionaire, and could hurt America and Colombia forces a lot.

          To make a long story short, Escabor and America started to kill each other's forces. Many people died in car bombings, so did many Escabor's people dead from assassinations and even occasionally illegal car bombings as well. Eventually, a CIA operative and a top Colombia offical formed "Les Pepos," I'm not sure about the spelling, but it's a name for a group of people designed to cut off the infrastructure from under Escabor. Many people were tortured, then shot in head. They were thrown in infamous pits with signs on their bodies, taunting Escabor to do the worst.

          Because of this tactic, Escabor even with all money in world, could not act more effectively as long his people were being pulled down from under him. Escabor began to lose the war badly. Soon, in December 1993, he was killed on rooftop after a couple of CIA operatives and Colombia special forces spotted him when he was using a cell phone, which CIA could trace it. The Medellin Cartel fell apart. It ceased to exist as a powerful cartel.

          The moral of this story was that for a time, America was willing to play dirty with Colombia drugs, and they always end up losing more than they bargained when they challenged America's power.

          Forget about giving a stiff sentence to a drug addict, just go after the source of drugs, beat the crap out of these no-good drug lords and their cartels. Destroy Colombia's arable land as to a form of punishment to stop the drugs from flowing into Colombia. We should look into unpopular options, after all, it's in America's interest to pursue this aggressively. Lest we find ourselves facing Colombia with a non-state entity in power.

          Dan
          Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

          "Aim small, miss small."

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          • #6
            The problem is the huge profit involved. If drugs were legal I doubt you see this sort of heavy handedness invovled. Why deal with bloodthirsty Communist guerillas when Bob can grow it legally here in the states.....
            "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kraut
              There is a very simple solution: no drug addicts, no drug mafia.
              So, how to prevent ppl from taking drugs and cure theaddicted? Not easy at all, but for starters: you don't cure a drug addicted by sending him to prison. But from what I know a guy who ruins himself to buy drugs and thereby ruins his health is punished more severely than a buisinessman who stole several million dollar from his firm (if he's done it creatively).
              That's a good thought, but, it is impossible to accomplish. I've spoken to NA counsilors and they all sat the same thing, that unless an addict wants to quit nothing you can do that will make them. Even that drug that given to addicts by parole boards doesn't work. The addicts just do the drugs anyway. People are right, there is no easy fix.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Cheetah772
                Personally for me, I feel that we should threaten Colombia with a single nuclear bomb, if it doesn't stop shipping the drugs to north, or do more in getting rid of the rebels. The rebels would scramble to save themselves, after all, in the criminal world, self-preservation is a must to acquire otherwise a criminal will be thrown to the wolves with little or no mercy.
                lol.

                Columbia has been fruitlessly fighting them tooth and nail for decades. If you want to threaten a loyal ally with a nuke, go ahead. And the rebels will call your bluff because no sane American president would nuke Columbia under the present circumstances.
                "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

                – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MikeJ
                  lol.

                  Columbia has been fruitlessly fighting them tooth and nail for decades. If you want to threaten a loyal ally with a nuke, go ahead. And the rebels will call your bluff because no sane American president would nuke Columbia under the present circumstances.
                  Colombia is not a loyal ally, not at all. When Pablo Escabor threatened to take over Colombia, the Colombian government felt it was in its best interest to cooperate with the USA otherwise it might face unwarranted US operations into Colombia that would have effectively killed off Colombian government.

                  I would hardly call Colombian government a staunch ally on terrorism. The reason they have been failing in the war on drugs is simply because they refuse to take tougher measures. Moreover, the Colombian government has been so thoroughly corrupted by the drugs, I wouldn't even call it a government anymore.

                  A loyal ally? Ha! Get your facts straight, please.

                  As I said later in my post, I admitted setting off a nuke was a little too extreme, but it was to show my point that the tougher measures are needed to win this drug war.

                  Dan
                  Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                  "Aim small, miss small."

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                  • #10
                    Colombia is a very poor country and illegal drugs are worth a lot. If we can't clean up our drug problem, do you really expect they can? It's quite unrealistic.
                    "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

                    Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cheetah772
                      ...tougher measures are needed to win this drug war.
                      Why do we need this war in the first place?

                      So that a large portion of our population can be imprisoned?
                      So that local police forces can storm Public Schools with gun drawn?
                      So that the Police can now execute a No-Knock warrant?
                      So that our Federal government can ignore the Posse COmatatus Act if drugs are involved?
                      Etc. Etc. Etc.

                      Forbid that we allow people to make their own choices.
                      "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tim McBride
                        Why do we need this war in the first place?

                        So that a large portion of our population can be imprisoned?
                        So that local police forces can storm Public Schools with gun drawn?
                        So that the Police can now execute a No-Knock warrant?
                        So that our Federal government can ignore the Posse COmatatus Act if drugs are involved?
                        Etc. Etc. Etc.

                        Forbid that we allow people to make their own choices.
                        It's hard to control all those dissident minds when they are using such a variety of non-sanctioned drugs, Tim. If they start making their own choices, you never know where it might lead. People might actually start thinking for themselves...
                        I have no problem at all with being proved wrong. Especially when being proved wrong leaves the world a better place, than being proved right...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cheetah772
                          Colombia is not a loyal ally, not at all. When Pablo Escabor threatened to take over Colombia, the Colombian government felt it was in its best interest to cooperate with the USA otherwise it might face unwarranted US operations into Colombia that would have effectively killed off Colombian government.
                          Do you think anyone likes taking orders from the USA? They are loyal because they have to be which is all that matters. I mean you practically run their military already.

                          I would hardly call Colombian government a staunch ally on terrorism. The reason they have been failing in the war on drugs is simply because they refuse to take tougher measures. Moreover, the Colombian government has been so thoroughly corrupted by the drugs, I wouldn't even call it a government anymore.
                          They're one of the, if not the longest standing democracy in Latin America. If you think corruption erodes that, then I'd wager to say the US, Canada and EU are not democratic.

                          Tougher measures? They already burn thousands of acres of drug crops every year, despite the fact that this forces a large number of the already poor Columbia rural residents into extreme poverty and starvation. The US actually funds programs to try to make planting other crops profitable, but it's pointless - there's no market for them (this is where Western agricultural subsidies come in).

                          I don't know what more extreme measures are, but whatever they are they would have to be much more damaging to Columbians than current measures (which are already harsh). It's unreasonable to expect Columbia to starve their farmers so that suburban American kids don't blow their weekly allowances on drugs.

                          A loyal ally? Ha! Get your facts straight, please.
                          Facts are facts - they take orders from Washington. If you don't consider that a loyal ally, then who do you consider a loyal ally? List them.

                          As I said later in my post, I admitted setting off a nuke was a little too extreme, but it was to show my point that the tougher measures are needed to win this drug war.
                          Tougher measures isn't going to win the drug war. The only way to 'win' the drug war is to remove the demand for them... and the chance of that ever dissapearing completely is about as good as my odds of getting laid by the entire ensemble of Victoria Secrets models.

                          But if you want to throw more junkies in jail, go for it. It's your tax dollars at work and we all know how much you like taxes.
                          "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

                          – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JAMiAM
                            It's hard to control all those dissident minds when they are using such a variety of non-sanctioned drugs, Tim. If they start making their own choices, you never know where it might lead. People might actually start thinking for themselves...
                            WHAT? Damm me thinking people should have to make there own choices and then live with them........
                            War on Drugs = War on your Rights
                            "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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                            • #15
                              Tim and Jam the powers that be know who you are. Soon you too can be on Prozac and voting Republican. Just rember to smile glassy eyed and wave the flag. All will be well.

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