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  • EU elite are filthy pigs, says Bossi

    The European Union's elite are determined to destroy Europe's Christian heritage, Italy's reform minister, Umberto Bossi said yesterday. He described the elite as "filthy pigs" who wanted to "make paedophilia as easy as possible".

    Mr Bossi, leader of the Northern League, said Brussels was "transforming vices into virtues" and "advancing the cause of atheism every day". He denounced the European arrest warrant as a step towards "dictatorship, deportation, and terror, instilling fear in the people, a crime in itself". It would lead to a Stalinist regime "multiplied by 25".

    One day Italian citizens would be locked up on the orders of Turkish judges, he told Il Giornale newspaper, which is owned by the family of the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi. He added that the euro was a "total flop", its inflationary effects costing ordinary people "a fortune" in lost purchasing power.

    The outburst was a public relations disaster for Mr Berlusconi, who was at the European Parliament in Strasbourg yesterday for the first time since his calamitous debut as EU president in July.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
    Editor-in-Chief
    GameSquad.com

  • #2
    Hello Don,

    The Eastern Europe is complaining that the framers are attempting to exclude Christianity from the future EU constitution. Poland wants a mention of Judeo-Christian heritage in this document, so it's no surprise that many people in Eastern Europe and in Russia are starving for God's Word, I guess the secularism hadn't really established itself in Eastern Europe, which from a born-again Christian's prespective, is a good thing to embrace.

    By the way, I should note that Bossi and most of Italy is Roman Catholics, so it's no wonder why they don't really feel guilty about Holocaust, after all, it's well-known in aftermath of WWII, Vatican City did more to help Nazi war criminals to escape through Ratlines. Catholics have always been violent anti-Semities.

    As for the rest of Europe, I mean, just look at Western Europe, it's spiritually dead. Even hardline Catholics are quietly complaining about the religious apathy growing in France. A high percentage of English kids and young adults don't know who Moses is or even a few commandments out of Ten Commandments. Anglicans are concerned about this as well. The biggest missionary fields are in Africa and South America.

    In Russia, there are growing Baptist churches, but many within Eastern Greek Orthodox Church want to destroy these churches, in fact, Putin recently signed a law that would restrain the religious freedom and some forms of speech, because of "hate" crimes. I've had some Russian friends who hail from Uzbreskistan and Katzakistan, spoke of Putin's shameful action.

    Overrall, even in this modern age, many Christians from different religious demoniations are being presecuted, whether it be restraining their freedom to speech or some people brutally murdering them.

    It's a sad world out there.

    Dan
    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

    "Aim small, miss small."

    Comment


    • #3
      Isn't this the same dude who said that the German prime minister would make a good prison camp commandant in some movie they were filming in Italy?
      Get the US out of NATO, now!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SparceMatrix
        Isn't this the same dude who said that the German prime minister would make a good prison camp commandant in some movie they were filming in Italy?
        No that was Silvio Berlusconi...
        a brain cell

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello,

          The more it changes, the more it is the same...
          I lived in Italy during Berlusconi's short-lived first mandate as prime minister (back in 1994 / 1995) and was there again during the 2001 legislative campaign that put him again in charge... Bossi has always been and remains a nationalist / populist freak and a puppet in Berlusconi's hands, very useful when it comes to throw smoke screens and divert attention from the only thing that matters for Sua Emittenza (Berlusconi's ironic nickname, alluding to the fact that he controls nearly all italian TV broadcasting nets) : keeping judges away from the financial and corruption affairs he is involved in

          Originally posted by Cheetah772
          As for the rest of Europe, I mean, just look at Western Europe, it's spiritually dead. Even hardline Catholics are quietly complaining about the religious apathy growing in France.
          Both things do not necessarily relate... and I wish the latter were true (religious matters are not so apathic over here). Fundamentalism (be it islamic or christian) and its pretention to have religious prescriptions overrule civil law are unfortunately becoming a hell of a political problem right now in France.

          As for the EU and its christian heritage, what would be the point of mentioning it in the European constitution? To be coherent and comprehensive, this heritage should also mention Greek and Roman paganism, Judaism and Islam (at least)...
          Religious freedom is to be guaranteed by the state (it is at least my opinion) which in turn implies its absolute neutrality. Religious matters belong to the individual, they should not interfere with the political sphere.

          nemo

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by nemo

            As for the EU and its christian heritage, what would be the point of mentioning it in the European constitution? To be coherent and comprehensive, this heritage should also mention Greek and Roman paganism, Judaism and Islam (at least)...
            Religious freedom is to be guaranteed by the state (it is at least my opinion) which in turn implies its absolute neutrality. Religious matters belong to the individual, they should not interfere with the political sphere.
            I really agree to this. I've been watching the Polish demands of including the "european christian heritage" in the future EU contitution with horror. Mainly because i don't see the need to do this. We have religious freedom, we have lot's of people from different cultures with different religions. Should we make it clear that we the christians are the most important part of EU's spiritual life?

            Personally i'm happy that the church has no longer any real power. Faith and spirituality should be a very personal matter, not something we put into laws or constitutions.

            And as Nemo stated, christian faith isn't the only part of european religious heritage, not even the most important one.

            Matti

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            • #7
              --
              To say that Christianity is not the main, if not the most important pillar of it's heritage or even Western civilization is akin to saying the French don't have a glorious military tradition. Ridiculous.

              I'm not saying it has to be cast in the Constitution but the blatant rejection of the Poles by the Eurocrats confirms to me that the EU is nothing more than an extension of Radical Neo-Liberalism hell-bent on destroying the people's of Europe.

              p.s. There will be more clashes like this between the EU's old guard and the new easterners. They don't see eye to eye on many issues and the French won't be able to muscle them around. This 'Union' can't last.
              "Thus, a prince should have no other object, nor any other thought, nor take anything else as his art but that of war and its orders and discipline; for that is the only art which is of concern to one who commands."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Boromir
                --
                To say that Christianity is not the main, if not the most important pillar of it's heritage or even Western civilization is akin to saying the French don't have a glorious military tradition. Ridiculous..
                I do agree indeed, but it is by no means the only "pillar" of that heritage and it has nothing to do with the future european constitution. However important the heritage, you can not tie without risks politics to religious beliefs. We have been through that in Europe and I think we had better not risk the experience again.
                Furthermore and to finish with it, heritages do not last forever : they eventually get spent and fall into irrelevance

                Originally posted by Boromir
                --
                the blatant rejection of the Poles by the Eurocrats confirms to me that the EU is nothing more than an extension of Radical Neo-Liberalism hell-bent on destroying the people's of Europe.
                I do not see the point. You can not dissociate the EU from the countries that are part of it. A large part of the improperly called Eurocrats are elected representatives of the different countries within the EU. The actual european policy-making system hinges on three institutions : the commission (a would-be administration in the US meaning of the word), the European councel (i.e. the gathering of governments from each member country) and the European parlament (made of elected representatives). I do not see what makes you see in this system (though imperfect) an institution "hell-bent on destroying the peoples of Europe". And if it were, I wonder why all the free people from Europe would in the first place remain in that Union or want to join in at all costs?


                Originally posted by Boromir
                --
                This 'Union' can't last.
                Is it a prediction based on a rationale or your hope? Yours (if I trust the flag your avatar displays) went through a civil war and is hopefully still thriving. Time will tell...

                Nemo

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hello nemo,

                  Whether you believe me or not, European Union is not necessarily democratic. European Parliament has no veto power and can only consult both council and commission. In fact, European Parliament can't remove an individual commissioner, but with a motion of censure, that would wipe out the entire Commission, which is why it's rare to use except in 1999. It failed anyway.

                  European Union is inherently founded upon elitism of European political establishment, for example, Monnet was certainly an elitist and had no thoughts about allowing direct elections for European Parliament.

                  The European Union is intent on removing the barriers of national sovereignity that one day could eventually threaten the very people who supported the EU in the first place.

                  The religion is already tied into the politics. A religion simply means a man's personal beliefs, whether it be atheist, Islamic, or Christian, every day the external events influence that persons' beliefs, and vice versa. For example, France's liberal secularism is already reflected on the world, just as America's Judeo-Christian tenets are already being reflected on the world through various means -- commercial ties, politicans uttering God's name, missionary activities, ideological foundations, etc.

                  It is humanely impossible to remain objective in a nation facing whatever a problem is. Clinton's own religion was his liberalism and internationalism which he attempted to influence on the world. He worshipped himself and ultimately believed in the power of being a pathological lair.

                  There just happens to be somebody who go too far with his or her personal beliefs, such as Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations. Compared to Al-Qaeda, modern Christians are far less extreme and tame. In fact, many of political beliefs and moral values were derived from the tenets of Christianity.

                  Dan
                  Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                  "Aim small, miss small."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only true religious heritage of Europe is religious freedom. Everything else has been an errant pestilance.
                    Get the US out of NATO, now!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SparceMatrix
                      The only true religious heritage of Europe is religious freedom. Everything else has been an errant pestilance.
                      With all due respect, I don't think Europe has religious freedom, it is moving slowly to restrain the Christian beliefs. For example, some people are not allowed to convert somebody else to Christianity even if that person wants to. The Christians are not allowed to evaneglize or prostelyze the people who WANT to be converted. The Christians are not allowed to print bible tracts and pass them out on the streets.

                      The liberals and other humanists would be outraged if Christian spoke of his or belief that homosexuality is a sin, it would be considered as a hate crime even though it is abruptly clear that God did destroy Sodom and Gomerrah because of homosexuality and in the first chapter of Romans Book, the homosexual or lesbian behavior is considered vile. If a Christian speaks out on abortion, he or she is immediately branched a hate-monger. If a Christian rebuke another Christian for failing to live up to Christ's expectations, this is also considered politically incorrect and a form of hate crime. The Christians are required to register their churches to the governments, or else a church may be considered illegal.

                      It's true that Christians aren't being forced into torture chambers, but verbal abuse and more laws restraining the Christian's right to spread the Gospel of God can and should be considered as a form of persecution, though more tame than in the past.

                      Dan
                      Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                      "Aim small, miss small."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It's true that Christians aren't being forced into torture chambers, but verbal abuse and more laws restraining the Christian's right to spread the Gospel of God can and should be considered as a form of persecution, though more tame than in the past.
                        "verbal abuse"? You can't be serious.

                        Consider the case of Russia. The Catholic Church is constantly looking for opportunities to prosyletize inside of Russia and the Russians won't allow it. The activities of the Catholic Church are restricted in Russia. So are many other believers like Scientologists. But Catholics are not being persecuted in Russia and no one would seriously suggest they are.

                        When the seperation of church and state is firmly established in some kind of agreement between European countries, then we might consider such restriction persecution as we do in the US. But not until then.
                        Get the US out of NATO, now!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cheetah772
                          With all due respect, I don't think Europe has religious freedom, it is moving slowly to restrain the Christian beliefs. For example, some people are not allowed to convert somebody else to Christianity even if that person wants to. The Christians are not allowed to evaneglize or prostelyze the people who WANT to be converted. The Christians are not allowed to print bible tracts and pass them out on the streets.
                          Bonjour DAn,
                          How are you, well I hope

                          In France proselitsm is only forbidden in Public Area -> not open space
                          but place depending of State like schools, Public administration.
                          Either in Private Offices/Companies internal rules prohibites proselitism

                          But instreet you can give any tracts about religion or philosophy or politics, as long as they don't give offense to an other community (Arab against Jews by instance)
                          In the French constitution there is a true religious freedom.
                          Problem is we are fighting against sects and fif or US people the Scientology is a religion for France ( and Germany) it is a sect.
                          But Boudist, ( not sure of well spel it sorry), Islam, Jeovah witness Jews, can profess their faith and freely try to convert other people.
                          Concerning Jeovah witness, each saturday 2 of them are passing in my street trying to convert people and nobody do anything against them as they are free/have the right to do it.
                          BUT NOT IS SCHOOL/STATE OWNED PLACE where no religious/ philosophic symbol must be wear -> no Tchador, no kipah, no chrisitan cross etc... The republic is the republic of all citizen, the faith is private domain and must remain there.
                          So no pray inside a scholl or any State owned place

                          The liberals and other humanists would be outraged if Christian spoke of his or belief that homosexuality is a sin, it would be considered as a hate crime even though it is abruptly clear that God did destroy Sodom and Gomerrah because of homosexuality and in the first chapter of Romans Book, the homosexual or lesbian behavior is considered vile. If a Christian speaks out on abortion, he or she is immediately branched a hate-monger. If a Christian rebuke another Christian for failing to live up to Christ's expectations, this is also considered politically incorrect and a form of hate crime. The Christians are required to register their churches to the governments, or else a church may be considered illegal.
                          Again, not in France you have freedom of speech as long as you are not bypassing Law rules -> Racism, antisemitism, negationism ( telling that shoah have not existed), and sexism

                          In 1905 the separation of Church and state have made transfer of ownership of churches to the commune depending of the mayor, but the cult is made there with no problem. The Priest is in charge of cult, the mayor is in charge of the building and of the security rules.

                          You/The bishopric can open a church, Mollahs a mosquée, Rabbin a Synagogue, All as you want as long as the the Law is respected ( security, style of the building etc...), it is the same way as for me to ask for a house construction.

                          It's true that Christians aren't being forced into torture chambers, but verbal abuse and more laws restraining the Christian's right to spread the Gospel of God can and should be considered as a form of persecution, though more tame than in the past.

                          Dan
                          Again I just spoke for my country, but in the street you can do proselitism as long as your are not breaking laws.

                          In France freedom of cult is part of our constitution as is it is written in the Right of man and citizen declaration. Jews have been declared as normal citizens in 1806 by Napoleon, with all the legal rights as any otherscitizen, and for all conquered territories by France.
                          Fun in Rome and Pontifical territories the Pope have reestablish the Gettho in 1815 !!!!

                          No Dan, the Freedon of cult is very important in Europe and more important is the separation of ANY reference to a religion facing the European constitution.

                          To finish and lot of French reader could confirm that, in Britany ( west part of France) my Grand Grand Father was obliged to engage in the army to get a job !!! Because he was wearing the French Flag in front of his town Church and the Priest have ordered to all employers not to give him a Job !!! Some decade ago a known Free masson was establishing in south Britany, and the local priest gave order not to sell him Milk, he was obliged to go 15 km to the local hyper market.

                          The weight of Catholic church was so heavy, that we can't stand that they return back in public affairs. To many people died for this freedom.
                          Religion must be out of public affairs, they can gave advices no problem but like other religion or phylosophic ideas, neither more nor less.

                          I hope not to be to much confusing

                          Der WanderLaïcism
                          Last edited by jlbetin; 27 Oct 03, 06:03.
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