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Shades of Saigon?

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  • Shades of Saigon?

    Things are really starting to get ugly in Iraq. Seems the opposition is organizing itself rather well.

    http://sympatico.globeandmail.com/se...ympatico-front
    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

  • #2
    Inevitably, there will come a time when a really bad incident will happen, something involving overwhelmed American soldiers wildly shooting in an Iraqi crowd. It is bound to happen, and it will make the news all around the world with horrific headlines. It's just the kind of thing that's hard to control in any military occupation.

    The Americans realize the political risk that such an incident will provoke. Interestingly enough, U.S. and Iraqi officials join together last week in a special ceremony that marked the creation of the first Iraqi infantry battalion of the new Iraqi army... the sooner the Iraqi army can handle the dangerous tasks of policing Iraqis, the better it is for the Americans.

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    • #3
      The situation in Iraq is deteriorating. We should expect this to accelerate. Prior to the war, I gave the US six months to make substantial progress. Going beyond this time limit would seriously degrade our chances for success. In retrospect, I overestimated. We only had weeks, if any time at all.

      I agree the US needs to rapidly field an Iraqi military and law enforcement force to address these issues. I read today the Bush Administration wants to allow Turkey to contribute troops to support the peacekeeping effort. The Iraqi Interim government oppose this, but I think the US will override them. Turkish peacekeepers, particularly in Northern Iraq is IMHO a HUGE mistake.

      It has been twenty-three years since the last hostages held by Iran left the Middle East, taking with them America's foothold in the region. Deposing Saddam Hussein and establishing an Islamic democratic government would have provided the United States with an excellent opportunity influence Middle East politics. The Iraqi people could have offered testimony, which would improve Muslim's perception of America.

      President Bush and his top aides squandered this opportunity by clinging to the ideal of the American Empire. Instead of planning for the tough challenges we face in Iraq, Bush simply ignored them. There were several reports made available to the President that warned of all the complications encountered in Iraq. Everything from civil unrest to the reality of Iraq's oil system. He ignored it all.

      In his zeal to preserve our superpower status, Bush has wasted thousands of lives with little to show for it. Unless the US make drastic changes to our post-War Iraq plan, we will likely be forced to withdraw, leaving an unstable Iraq. We'll leave an nation in chaos, as well as an even more unstable Middle East, in our wake.
      "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Deltapooh
        I read today the Bush Administration wants to allow Turkey to contribute troops to support the peacekeeping effort. The Iraqi Interim government oppose this, but I think the US will override them. Turkish peacekeepers, particularly in Northern Iraq is IMHO a HUGE mistake.
        Indeed, this would show crass cultural and historical ignorance of this region.

        President Bush and his top aides squandered this opportunity by clinging to the ideal of the American Empire. Instead of planning for the tough challenges we face in Iraq, Bush simply ignored them. There were several reports made available to the President that warned of all the complications encountered in Iraq. Everything from civil unrest to the reality of Iraq's oil system. He ignored it all.
        This boggles my mind, although it seems more and more you are right. No one would believe so much amateurism is possible at the highest level of the government of the most powerful nation on Earth. How do you explain that?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Deltapooh
          I agree the US needs to rapidly field an Iraqi military and law enforcement force to address these issues. I read today the Bush Administration wants to allow Turkey to contribute troops to support the peacekeeping effort. The Iraqi Interim government oppose this, but I think the US will override them. Turkish peacekeepers, particularly in Northern Iraq is IMHO a HUGE mistake.
          Turkish troops are rumored to be slated for southern Iraq, were they are away from the Kurds and that ongoing fued.
          "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tim McBride
            Turkish troops are rumored to be slated for southern Iraq, were they are away from the Kurds and that ongoing fued.

            But how are they getting there ?
            The easiest route would be to transit through Kurdish held Northern Iraq; unfortunately it'll probably also be the bloodiest route.
            Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tigersqn
              But how are they getting there ?
              The easiest route would be to transit through Kurdish held Northern Iraq; unfortunately it'll probably also be the bloodiest route.
              Since when did the Kurds become the rulers of Northern Iraq? Other people do live there. They are part of the Iraqi council, if it votes to allow Turkish troops in, they need to respect that or risk destroying a coalition they belong to.

              AND, If the Kurds are stupid enough to fire on the Turks they will get what they deserve.
              Anakara is determined to make this work, the Turks will behave with the US watching over them. I do not think they will fire the first shot.
              "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Tim McBride
                Since when did the Kurds become the rulers of Northern Iraq? Other people do live there. They are part of the Iraqi council, if it votes to allow Turkish troops in, they need to respect that or risk destroying a coalition they belong to.

                AND, If the Kurds are stupid enough to fire on the Turks they will get what they deserve.
                Anakara is determined to make this work, the Turks will behave with the US watching over them. I do not think they will fire the first shot.
                That's just it.
                The US wants Turkish troops to deploy in the west of the country, but the Iraqi Governing Council condemns any deployment of Turkish troops.
                Even if the Council should approve a Turkish deployment, many Kurds in the north will resist any Turkish moves into Iraq.
                Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tigersqn
                  That's just it.
                  The US wants Turkish troops to deploy in the west of the country, but the Iraqi Governing Council condemns any deployment of Turkish troops.
                  Even if the Council should approve a Turkish deployment, many Kurds in the north will resist any Turkish moves into Iraq.
                  You are missing my point

                  IF

                  the council approves Turkish deployment(which they mor ethen likely will due to Washington pressure), anyone who fires on Turkish troops is going to get treated as the opposition; end of story, do not pass go, do not collect $200...
                  "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tzar
                    This boggles my mind, although it seems more and more you are right. No one would believe so much amateurism is possible at the highest level of the government of the most powerful nation on Earth. How do you explain that?
                    Throughout American history our foriegn policy struggled between idealism and realism. The Bush Administration are idealists who believe the might of the United States can overcome any adversity.

                    Henry Kissinger got the ball going in mid-1970's when he began circulating ideals on how America could achieve global domination through the Middle East. Since then, American leaders have proposed a number of plans for achieving this goal. All have been rejected because of the reality of the political climate in that region.

                    Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfield see America as a great empire. They believe these plans were rejected not because they were unrealistic. Instead, they feel international influence, and poor leadership are to blame. Bush and his team believe they have the experience, and will to prove skeptics wrong.

                    The UN and our allies are being locked out of Iraq not because we want the oil to ourselves. If cheap oil was the primary objective, these experienced businessmen would do more to encourage foriegn investment, even if that meant going to the UN. America went it alone to prove a point to the world; we're the big dog and will remain so for decades to come. (At least that is what Bush hopes.)

                    Bush's grand vision is not that much different from President Johnson. Both men believed the rewards of democracy made it impossible for a people to refuse. They also were convinced the "carrot and stick" approach would deter resistance. Both men are wrong.

                    The Bush team's effort to preserve "The American Empire" might lead to its demise. We are being challenged not because people want to rule the US, and steal baseball. They simply want the US to recognize them as something more than our puppets. Nothing will stop this. I hope Bush, or the person who succeeds him realize it is time America took stock of her assets, and give up all, but the absolute necessities. We don't have to worry about anyone replacing us. Few people are interested filling America's shoes. Most of the world has adopted to the ideal of "having little". We haven't. Maybe Bush should think about how he'll adjust to "having nothing."
                    "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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