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  • Double Treason at Guantanamo?

    The loyalty of Muslims in the US military has come into doubt yet again in the context of the recent investigation at Guantanamo where two, a translator and a chaplain are in trouble for allegedly aiding the terrorist suspects rather than the U.S. investigation.

    I have no intention to generalize about those people and dump 'em all into one traitors' basket but am wondering: isn't allegiance to both the U.S. armed forces and the Quran even possible? Seems like a tough choice.

    I'd like to know what motivates the relatively few Muslims who volunteer for the service.

    "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
    --Frederick II, King of Prussia

  • #2
    Originally posted by MonsterZero
    The loyalty of Muslims in the US military has come into doubt yet again in the context of the recent investigation at Guantanamo where two, a translator and a chaplain are in trouble for allegedly aiding the terrorist suspects rather than the U.S. investigation.

    I have no intention to generalize about those people and dump 'em all into one traitors' basket but am wondering: isn't allegiance to both the U.S. armed forces and the Quran even possible? Seems like a tough choice.

    I'd like to know what motivates the relatively few Muslims who volunteer for the service.
    Yes, they are definitely traitors, after all, they did betray or disobey the orders of the US commanders. If they're caught in act, that means we do have plenty of evidence convicting them of their criminal acts.

    Recently a US airman with a muslim name was arrested for allegedly spying for Syria. What a shame.

    Some muslims will tell you that Koran demands the allegiance to Koran first, then to the nation, but if that nation isn't converted to Islam, muslims will have to subvert that nation by whatever means available. Some other muslims will disagree, many of these are mostly liberal ones, who fear the more radical muslims twisting Koran to their benefits.

    In my opinion, the strain of Middle East Islamic sections represent the true Islam, not of America or anywhere else. Middle Eastern Islam is something we need to watch carefully.

    Dan
    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

    "Aim small, miss small."

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    • #3
      I just don't think that it is possible for Muslims to be truely loyal to a country that is full of infidels. Remember to Muslims any non-Muslim is nothing more than an infidel and not worthy of thier respect.

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      • #4
        Wow.
        People who are unloyal are going to be unloyal no mater their religion.
        Otherwise we better be ready to throw all the Jews, Catholics and just about all followers of the modern christian bible into the brig with the rest of the "unloyal".

        Shoot the spies and move on.
        "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tim McBride
          Wow.
          People who are unloyal are going to be unloyal no mater their religion.
          Otherwise we better be ready to throw all the Jews, Catholics and just about all followers of the modern christian bible into the brig with the rest of the "unloyal".

          Shoot the spies and move on.
          I don't get it. Why would anybody betray their own country? USA has some of the highest living standards, and freedom is still alive despite Ashcroft's support for Patriot Act. What could possibly a Middle Eastern country offer to these disgruntled citizens of this great nation? Truly, they should have seen the fulility of living under Islamic regimes.

          Being too greedy can't really be that simple, can it?

          Dan
          Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

          "Aim small, miss small."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tim McBride
            Wow.
            People who are unloyal are going to be unloyal no mater their religion.
            Otherwise we better be ready to throw all the Jews, Catholics and just about all followers of the modern christian bible into the brig with the rest of the "unloyal".

            Shoot the spies and move on.
            The Muslim is not loyal to any country, they are loyal to Islam. That's the point, they will over throw any country that isn't Islamic.

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            • #7
              How many million of Muslims in the United States ? Two of them are traitors
              speak me about generalizations.

              LaPalice.
              Monsieur de La Palice est mort
              Mort devant Pavie.
              Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
              Il ťtait encore en vie...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LaPalice
                How many million of Muslims in the United States ? Two of them are traitors
                speak me about generalizations.

                LaPalice.
                These are not generalizations, the Koran is very specific on this subject, Muslims are not to treat infidels as equals. They are not to be friends with people of the book (Christians and Jews), it actually says that. Have you ever read the Koran, I would suggest that you do it very enlightening.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Priest
                  These are not generalizations, the Koran is very specific on this subject, Muslims are not to treat infidels as equals. They are not to be friends with people of the book (Christians and Jews), it actually says that. Have you ever read the Koran, I would suggest that you do it very enlightening.
                  Yes, I know that, Iím not one of those people who say that Islam is a religion of peace and nothing else. To the contrary I think we must be very vigilante about Muslim fundamentalists, who want to dictate their rules to everybody.
                  But we must be careful not to go to the opposite excess. Itís not because two guy are traitors that all the others are traitors too. I think that the most of the Muslims are peaceful and donít ask anything.

                  LaPalice.
                  Monsieur de La Palice est mort
                  Mort devant Pavie.
                  Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
                  Il ťtait encore en vie...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MonsterZero
                    I'd like to know what motivates the relatively few Muslims who volunteer for the service.
                    Most likely the same things that motivate anyone to volunteer for service. Of course, back in my day, they got drafted like everyone else.
                    And we are here as on a darkling plain
                    Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
                    Where ignorant armies clash by night.


                    Matthew Arnold

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Priest
                      These are not generalizations, the Koran is very specific on this subject, Muslims are not to treat infidels as equals. They are not to be friends with people of the book (Christians and Jews), it actually says that. Have you ever read the Koran, I would suggest that you do it very enlightening.
                      Not every muslim is a fundamentalist. In fact, I suspect the vast majority living in the US are not fundamentalists. So just because the Koran states something doesn't mean they are acting upon it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Priest
                        The Muslim is not loyal to any country, they are loyal to Islam. That's the point, they will over throw any country that isn't Islamic.
                        Like I said following this logic we better be ready to distrust the Catholics, other Christians, Jews, etc; since they are to put God (or da Pope or whoever) before country.

                        The Bible is just as bad in spots as the Koran.
                        "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cheetah772
                          I don't get it. Why would anybody betray their own country? USA has some of the highest living standards, and freedom is still alive despite Ashcroft's support for Patriot Act. What could possibly a Middle Eastern country offer to these disgruntled citizens of this great nation? Truly, they should have seen the fulility of living under Islamic regimes.

                          Being too greedy can't really be that simple, can it?

                          Dan

                          I would say it is normally fairly involved and different for each spy. Some are motivated by money, some by religion, politcal ideals, etc....
                          "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tex
                            Not every muslim is a fundamentalist. In fact, I suspect the vast majority living in the US are not fundamentalists. So just because the Koran states something doesn't mean they are acting upon it.
                            There was a recent news report that stated 80% of mosques in the U.S. are under the influence of radical Islamic clerics. Fundamentalist Islamic clerics.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tim McBride
                              Like I said following this logic we better be ready to distrust the Catholics, other Christians, Jews, etc; since they are to put God (or da Pope or whoever) before country.

                              The Bible is just as bad in spots as the Koran.
                              Last I heard Jews and Christians weren't strapping bombs onto themselves and walking into pizzarias, or flying airplanes into buildings. Last I heard Catholics weren't selling state secrets to the Pope either. This activity seems confined to Muslims.

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