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  • Show me what you've got!

    Gentlemen, For millennia humans have had close encounters with an invisible life-form and his representatives in human form.
    One rep (Jesus) even said straight out "I'm not from this world" and could bend the laws of physics at will.
    His story and all the other close encounters have been collected into one book,the Bible.
    Once you get into it,the Bible has hidden depths that will blow your socks off and put the X-files in the shade.
    I first became fascinated with it a long time ago, and it seems I've become something of a bible scholar according to what people tell me,and I was even roped into writing articles for an evangelical group who seem impressed with my stuff.
    So if any of you feel like having fun trying to trip me up with toughie questions and points of view about the whole Christian Ethic,go ahead and give it your best shots!
    Nobody's ever beat me in a theological debate yet,so hey,you might be the first! Other people have tried tripping up Christians in the past but hadn't a chance!
    "They couldn't beat Paul in arguments because of his wisdom and the spirit" (Acts 6:10)

  • #2
    Well, if you're well-read on the bible, I do have an unrelated question. I posed it to Cheetah but he isn't responding:

    I saw this on 60 minutes a long time ago. The gist of it was that 70 million Americans follow a denomination of Christianity that supports Israel 100% because they believe that Israel ethnically cleansing "Greater Israel" of Arabs/Muslims will fullfill 4 of 5 stages of the prophecy of the 1000 year kingdom of the Saviour. Stage 5 is apparently where 75% of the Jews in Greater Israel are killed and the remaining 25% are converted to Christianity.

    Now, this was 60 minutes, not the National Enquirer here, so I'm assuming there are really 70 million (or thereabouts) people in the USA who follow a denomination or interpretation of Christianity that believes this (without meaning all of the followers actually want it or believe it will happen), meaning there is probably reference to this somewhere in the book.

    1) Do you have even the slightest clue what I'm talking about?

    2) If you answered yes to one, can you point me to where I can read the actual passages that relate to this? I'm curious to see what is it that was interpreted to mean supporting insane, genocidal thoughts.

    3) To help prepare you for future debates on Christianity, I direct you here: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ and http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

    Slightly tongue in cheek, though I'm really looking for an answer to #1 and #2.
    "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

    – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello MikeJ,

      I was not aware that you posted this question to me. I am sorry for my lack of reply.

      So here is my answer, I don't know Old Spikey's answer either.

      We Christians support Israel because Jesus Christ himself is a Jew, and God instructed us to support and bless the Jews. The very first instruction was in Genesis.

      Please, let me post an excerpt from a Baptist paster in Utah. I posted it to Sheik Yerbouti, so I'll post this one here for your convience.

      http://israelontheweb.us/Israelwhythesite.html

      originally posted by Cooper P. Abrams III

      Over and over in my mind came back the passage I knew so well, "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" (Gen. 12:3) Yes, Israel has for 2000 years rejected her Messiah and lived in spiritual blindness. . . but that does not mean that the world and especially Christians, have any right to anti-Semitism or to show hatred or even indifference to this people. God's word is true.... "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse you." God said this fully knowing of Israel's sins. He has given them a special place in history to show forth His glory and righteousness and in time, as sure as is the existence of God, they will fully fulfill this purpose. One day they will understand that God's promise to Abram that "in thee all the families on earth shall be blessed" was accomplished 2000 years ago with the coming of Jesus the Messiah. When that wonderful day comes, and it will surely come, all the years of rejection will be as nothing and forgotten when compared to the glory that they will then be to Him. I, along with many others ache, longing for that day. God tells us in Romans 11:25-27 as He spoke through the Apostle Paul, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

      We as Christian Americans must stand with Israel as they are God's people and He gave them that land 3000 years ago and despite the lies to the contrary they has always been a Jewish presence there. We must understand the mind of God.... "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse you." If we love God, we must "bless" Israrl and stand with her.

      Each of child of God should pray for the peace of Jerusalem and the Israeli people, because we know that in praying for their peace we are praying for the return of the Prince of Peace. We need to pray for those who are preaching the Gospel in Israel and seeking to win the Jews to Christ around the world. We as Christians and Americans need to "bless" them as we stand with them in their current political dilemma. This pleases God and is being obedient to Him. Israel is permanently now on my personal prayer list and our prayer list at Calvary Baptist Church in Tremonton, Utah.
      Dan
      Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

      "Aim small, miss small."

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay, here is my question : Adam and Eve were the first humans. There were thrown out of the paradise. Then they discovered sex and produced Kain and Abel. Kain killed Abel and was send out into the world, were he found a wive and started a family.

        Where did Kains wive came from?
        Resistance is futile!
        My little company

        Comment


        • #5
          Evolution?
          Take away Pearl Harbor and Marko would be writing in German Today.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by arkai88
            Evolution?
            Sodomy??
            Last edited by Scipio; 16 Sep 03, 09:24.
            Resistance is futile!
            My little company

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Scipio
              Okay, here is my question : Adam and Eve were the first humans. There were thrown out of the paradise. Then they discovered sex and produced Kain and Abel. Kain killed Abel and was send out into the world, were he found a wive and started a family.

              Where did Kains wive came from?
              Oh, that's easy. Cain's wife came from Adam and Eve! Since God commanded both to produce and replenish (means to fill, not replace) the earth, it's obvious that Adam and Eve had daughters even though it was not mentioned, though in Genesis 5:4, it says "....and he begat sons and daughters:" Obviously, Adam and Eve did have children other than Seth, Abel, and Cain, and daughters were included in this as well.

              Before, you scream "incest," how else could human beings reproduce? With animals? Please. During Adam's time, the human dna wasn't yet that corrupted as today is, therefore, it was okay for children to intermarry each other. It wasn't until Moses' time that God finally did forbid any person to marry their own siblings or first cousins.

              Once again, the Bible still truimphs over man!

              Dan
              Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

              "Aim small, miss small."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cheetah772
                We Christians support Israel because Jesus Christ himself is a Jew, and God instructed us to support and bless the Jews. The very first instruction was in Genesis.
                I'm certain many Christians, myself included, would reject that opinion.

                Support for or against Israel depends on how one perceives ongoing violence. Alot of people in America see Israel more as the victim rather than the aggressor. Others see it the other way around. At this state anyone that claims one side is more wrong than the other might be wrong.
                Last edited by Deltapooh; 16 Sep 03, 10:34.
                "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cheetah772
                  Oh, that's easy. Cain's wife came from Adam and Eve! Since God commanded both to produce and replenish (means to fill, not replace) the earth, it's obvious that Adam and Eve had daughters even though it was not mentioned, though in Genesis 5:4, it says "....and he begat sons and daughters:" Obviously, Adam and Eve did have children other than Seth, Abel, and Cain, and daughters were included in this as well.

                  Before, you scream "incest," how else could human beings reproduce? With animals? Please. During Adam's time, the human dna wasn't yet that corrupted as today is, therefore, it was okay for children to intermarry each other. It wasn't until Moses' time that God finally did forbid any person to marry their own siblings or first cousins.

                  Once again, the Bible still truimphs over man!

                  Dan
                  Tsk-tsk-tsk-tsk

                  Okay, here's another one. If god is almighty, can he create a rock that is so heavy that he can't move it anymore?
                  Resistance is futile!
                  My little company

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cheetah772
                    Interesting, but do you know any passages that specifically reference the ethnic cleansing of Greater Israel and later the death of 75% of them in Israel? I mean, this might not exist (eg the denomination that 60 minutes did a report on might have interpreted some passages in a rather skewed way)... but I haven't picked up the bible since for a decade and a half so I'm not sure where to even begin looking for reference to this prophecy.
                    "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

                    – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Scipio
                      Tsk-tsk-tsk-tsk

                      Okay, here's another one. If god is almighty, can he create a rock that is so heavy that he can't move it anymore?
                      The answer might be who cares whether or not god could lift the rock. The ability to create it would be proof enough for most religious people.

                      Of course, I'm not trying to degrade your beliefs or impress my own.
                      "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MikeJ
                        I saw this on 60 minutes a long time ago. The gist of it was that 70 million Americans follow a denomination of Christianity that supports Israel 100% because they believe that Israel ethnically cleansing "Greater Israel" of Arabs/Muslims will fullfill 4 of 5 stages of the prophecy of the 1000 year kingdom of the Saviour
                        I couldn't care less how many zillion of this denomination or that denomination follow this or that.
                        I simply follow that young carpenter from Nazareth, and when he says we shouldn't get drawn into worldly problems,I string with him:-
                        "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed." (Matt 24:6)

                        A MAJOR KEY to understanding Christianity is to chill and DISTANCE YOURSELF from petty worldly things,again just like he said:-
                        "The world wants you to dance to its tune" (Matt 11:16/17)

                        Spike don't dance! You want political talk? Find yourself another boy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Come on Spike, you're the bible guy. You should be able to tell me if such passages exist.

                          If you can not, I call shenanigans on your bible knowledge .
                          "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

                          – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cheetah772
                            During Adam's time, the human dna wasn't yet that corrupted as today is, ...
                            That is an interesting comment. Could you elaborate?
                            “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…” -1984 about the Big Lie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, let's argue about whether the bible is true or not, this will get far.
                              "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

                              Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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