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Quiz thread IX

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  • Quiz thread IX

    In the course of warfare there have occurred numerous battles of which it could be said "they need not have taken place".

    In WW II a battle such as this occurred.

    Over the course of the Pacific campaign, the timetable of the campaign to wrest the Phillipines from the Japanese occupiers was accelerated due to a perceived weakening of enemy resistance and an apparent opportunity for the Allies. Although there was no longer any requirement for the battle in question to take place, the Theatre Commander decided to allow the alloted forces to proceed 2 days hence. As a hint; this battle took place before the invasion of the Phillipine Islands.

    Name the battle, the forces involved, the Theatre Commander in question and the approximate casualties suffered in this needless battle.

    Yeah I know it's a lot to ask, but if I gave any of the above away, the answer would be too obvious.

    Clues will be presented every 24 hours.
    Last edited by tigersqn; 25 Jun 03, 19:20.
    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

  • #2
    Clue #1

    This clue was changed after I edited the first post.

    The person who recommended an acceleration of the campaign to seize the Phillipines was Admiral "Bull" Halsey.
    Last edited by tigersqn; 25 Jun 03, 20:47.
    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

    Comment


    • #3
      The Phillipines?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tex
        The Phillipines?
        The Phillipines was the "final objective" (so to speak) but not "the battle that need not have taken place".

        I should amplify a little on the question I suppose.

        Recheck the first post in the thread. I edited it.
        I also edited Clue #1.
        Last edited by tigersqn; 25 Jun 03, 20:48.
        Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

        Comment


        • #5
          Peleliu was the objective.As for the rest i'm a bit foggy right now maybe someone else can.

          Come on guys team effort here:laola:

          Comment


          • #6
            Part of the American force was the 1st Marine Division.
            Texas, where we have the death penalty and aren't afraid to use it!

            Comment


            • #7
              So two of the questions have been answered.

              On 15 September 1944, the 1st US Marine Div landed on Peleliu in the Palaus Island chain in an operation that the JCS, Gen MaCarthur and Adm Nimitz all agreed, after Adm. Halsey's recommendation, did not need to take place.

              Now for the remaining questions.

              Who was the Theatre Commander that allowed the operation to proceed and what were the approximate casualties incurred ?
              Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

              Comment


              • #8
                Clue #2

                In the Pacific in WW II, there were two Theatre commanders. One of these allowed the invasion of Peleliu to proceed even though it was no longer a requirement for future operations.
                Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tigersqn
                  Clue #2

                  In the Pacific in WW II, there were two Theatre commanders. One of these allowed the invasion of Peleliu to proceed even though it was no longer a requirement for future operations.
                  It was a navy admiral...after this operation MaCarthur would get control of any assets used in the Phillipine campaign,at least i think he would.I want to say King.As for the casualties i believe they were around 7000 for the marines.the japs also used light tanks during the engagement.As for Japanese losses i'm not quite sure but i remember reading that it was one of the sharpest divisional engagements of WWII.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by John Paul


                    It was a navy admiral...after this operation MaCarthur would get control of any assets used in the Phillipine campaign,at least i think he would.I want to say King.As for the casualties i believe they were around 7000 for the marines.the japs also used light tanks during the engagement.As for Japanese losses i'm not quite sure but i remember reading that it was one of the sharpest divisional engagements of WWII.
                    A quick web search revealed this:

                    By the summer of 1944, the United States had come a long way since the dark days of Pearl Harbor, Wake Island and Bataan. Victories in the Southwest and Central Pacific had brought the war even closer to Japan, with American bombers now able to strike at the Japanese homeland itself. But there was disagreement by the U.S. Joint Chiefs over two proposed strategies to crush the Japanese Empire.
                    One strategy proposed by General Douglas MacArthur called for the recapture of the Philippines, followed by the capture of Okinawa then Formosa for an attack at the Chinese mainland. From there, the eventual invasion of Japan would come.

                    Admiral Chester Nimitz, on the other hand, favored a more direct strategy of bypassing the Philippines, but seizing Okinawa and Formosa as staging areas for the future invasion of Japan's southernmost islands. As for Peleliu, both commanders' strategies included the invasion of this island, but for different reasons, and the 1st Marine Division had already been chosen to make the assault.

                    To settle this dispute, President Franklin Roosevelt traveled to Pearl Harbor to meet personally with both commanders and hear their respective arguments. From this the president would make his own decision. After a review of both positions, MacArthur's strategy was chosen. However, before MacArthur could retake the Philippines, the Palau Islands - Peleliu specifically, would have to be neutralized to protect his right flank. What followed would be a ferocious battle lasting more than two months and costing over 12,000 lives. It would also be one of the Pacific War's most forgotten campaigns.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I also found this which contradicts some of the above:


                      In the hindsight of more than half a century since the battle for Peleliu, the campaign has been shadowed by the suggestion that it need not have been fought at all. By mid-1944, American naval dominance in the Western Pacific had made itself felt with repeated carrier strikes against the southern Philippines, Palaus and Carolines, resulting in their elimination as a threat against future Allied operations in this theater. Admiral William Halsey's 5th Fleet inflicted heavy damage on aircraft, ships and installations but were only lightly contested by the Japanese. This led Halsey to contact Admiral Chester Nimitz with the strong recommendation that the imminent invasion of Peleliu and Angaur be called off and the timetable for the Philippine operation moved up.
                      Unfortunately, Nimitz held fast to the plans at hand, believing Peleliu to be a relatively easy campaign and useful as an airbase in support of MacArthur's retaking of the Philippines. American air reconnaissance of Peleliu seemed to underscore Nimitz's view, with the island appearing to be wholly flat with few visible enemy defense installations. Even the 1st Marine Division commander, William Rupertus was heard to say that Peleliu would be "rough, but fast." Allied commanders were unaware of just how well fortified the island really was and that the Japanese had also made a significant change in their battle tactics to make the next ten months the bloodiest of the Pacific War.


                      AND THIS:


                      The battle for Peleliu was one of the bloodiest of the Pacific War, costing the U.S. Marines and Navy some 6,526 casualties, including 1,252 killed in action. Meanwhile, the Japanese suffered the near total destruction of their garrison, with over 10,900 killed and 202 prisoners of war captured, most all of whom were conscripted laborers. With such high American casualties, the Japanese command affirmed the success of their strategy of attrition, which now set the tone for the even bloodier assaults on Iwo Jima and Okinawa the following year.

                      While the Marines and soldiers were slugging it out in the ridges of Peleliu, General MacArthur had already landed on Leyte in the Philippines and the naval battle for Leyte Gulf had been fought and won. The Peleliu operation, which was launched to secure MacArthur's flank for his recapture of the Philippines, had played no part in his return to the archipelago. Perhaps Admiral Halsey had been right - Peleliu should have been called off.


                      Ah hell...here is the link to all the above:

                      http://www.peleliu.net/Battle/Battle.htm

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Read Robert Leckies "Helmet for my pillow" Its a classic dealing with the PTO.He was there and the only reason i have heard of the battle is because of his book.The new hardcover edition also includes a poem"battle of the Illu" left out of the original 1950's book.An interesting character in the book is also a Frenchman who joins them during the New Guneia(sp) campaign.Trust me ths book is worth the price

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                        • #13
                          That's the ticket!

                          On Sept. 13 1944, Adm. Halsey radioed Adm Nimitz requesting that the whole timetable for the Phillipine operation be moved up. The reason for this was that he had carried out a carrier fighter sweep of the Phillipine Islands. This feeling was reinforced by a fighter pilot that had been shot down and rescued by submarine.

                          At that time there were two invasion fleets under way. One was bound for Morotai, with MacArthur in attendance.

                          The other was the ill-fated invasion fleet bound for Peleliu in the Palaus Island chain.

                          Adm. Nimitz decided it was too late to recall the Palaus invasion fleet and allowed it to continue on it's mission. According to my sources 9171 Marines fell pointlessly for an objective that no longer held any value.

                          Two other planned invasions were cancelled due to Adm. Halseys recommendations. The planned landings on Mindanao and the Talauds were scrapped in favor of assaulting Leyte.

                          A very interesting accounting of the Peleliu invasion can be found in the biography of Chesty Puller, who commanded the 7th Marine Regt. of the 1st Div. at the time. The book is entitled "Marine! The life of Chesty Puller" by Burke Davis.
                          Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tigersqn

                            entitled "Marine! The life of Chesty Puller" by Burke Davis.
                            Chesty Puller?!?!?!? With set-ups like this, you'd make a great straight-man, Pierre

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