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US Rule .... I doubt it.

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  • US Rule .... I doubt it.

    Shiah spokesman states the people will not tolerate any US led governance. They will only listen to their own officials and officialdom.

  • #2
    Marko, have the Brits taken Basra yet? It's only been three weeks...
    "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

    Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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    • #3
      hmm, it'll be interesting to see in the next days: were the ppl celebrating the arrival of US troops or the ousting of Saddam or both ?

      Will they still celebrate once order is restored and a US lead government installed or will they demand the US to leave to take responsible into their own hands ?
      "The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

      Henry Alfred Kissinger

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      • #4
        Didn't Machiavelli say that the poor always welcome the invaders initially, because they see it as a chance for change whereas the rich oppose the invaders for the same reason?

        Or am I thinking about someone else.

        Don't think we'll know how genuine it is for a while, but I can't imagine anyone being sad Hussein is gone... nationalists might equally loathe the coalition in their country, however.

        EDIT: I should pay attention to what I write..

        I can't imagine anyone being sad Hussein is gone... except those who profited from him being in power, of course.
        Last edited by MikeJ; 09 Apr 03, 09:52.
        "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."

        – Associate Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States.

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        • #5
          It's fine with me if they don't support US rule. Iraq is a democratic country already. We just need to make certain whatever government is established does not oppress the people and seek to threaten it's allies. A multilateral effort can help facilitate that. I hear alot of criticism from people about the US just wanting to take over. We want a government we don't have to watch over and topple because they threaten national interest.

          The US knows the Iraqi people, and Arab states will be watching our moves closely. The UN will likely be involved even if Bush doesn't want it. He needs to loose the chip on his shoulder.
          "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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          • #6
            Well there was never any doubt that the Allies would take Baghdad......the how and when were the talking points not the eventual outcome. It's still not over yet. In fact chaos might ensue for some time to come. What usually happens in situations like this is that eventually the clamour will go up for law and order to be restored and the populace will accept a strict regime whether local or foreign so long as they can go about their daily business without fear.
            However after a few months questions asked will demand answers re how long the US and UK are going to stick around.
            The US and British troops will be loath to become involved in civil unrest situations where riots and snipers are active against them. If that happens things could spiral downward pretty rapidly.

            Up North it looks like the 4th Division is be going to be given the chance to try out their new gear in Tikrit, possibly backed by some of the 82nd and just maybe some British troops. Of course Mosul and Kirkuk are messy situations too and will have to be secured to stop the Iraqis and Kurds from cutting each other’s throats!
            http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Deltapooh
              The US knows the Iraqi people, and Arab states will be watching our moves closely. The UN will likely be involved even if Bush doesn't want it. He needs to loose the chip on his shoulder.
              It looks like the UN will be involved but not in charge of the operation like Chirac wants. According to Chirac, "the reconstruction of Iraq is a matter for the United Nations and it alone".

              Chirac had his chance to be relevent. Instead he played games. The US can get things done much quicker than the UN.
              "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

              Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Chuck

                The US can get things done much quicker than the UN.
                I would have to agree. In general the US has a pretty good record for democratizing vanquished nations (Germany, Japan). There are too many countries and too many different interests at stake for the UN to do an effective job in post-war Iraq.

                That being said, the UN will have to have some type of role to provide "legitimacy". Perhaps organizing and coordinating the humanitarian aspect.
                Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tigersqn


                  I would have to agree. In general the US has a pretty good record for democratizing vanquished nations (Germany, Japan). There are too many countries and too many different interests at stake for the UN to do an effective job in post-war Iraq.

                  That being said, the UN will have to have some type of role to provide "legitimacy". Perhaps organizing and coordinating the humanitarian aspect.
                  Yes, the UN is generally too slow for something like this. How long will the debates be in the UN before decisions can be made? This Chirac character is out of his mind if he thinks the US is just going to abandon Iraq to the UN circus ringmasters. The 'Axis of Weasels' are having a big meeting this weekend in St. Petersburg. Should be interesting to see what comes out of it.
                  "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

                  Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Chuck


                    Yes, the UN is generally too slow for something like this. How long will the debates be in the UN before decisions can be made?
                    Democracy is a slow process. Centralized systems are quick to act. Obviously a better balance is needed for the UN to be more effective.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Chuck
                      Marko, have the Brits taken Basra yet? It's only been three weeks...
                      hhmmmm....comparison........Nassariah - small provincial town, Basra - Iraq's second city. 3 UK bdes, 4 US divisions. Oh yes and how many allies have the US killed in this war - dumb boys.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Marko


                        hhmmmm....comparison........Nassariah - small provincial town, Basra - Iraq's second city. 3 UK bdes, 4 US divisions. Oh yes and how many allies have the US killed in this war - dumb boys.
                        You can make light of friendly fire deaths if you want.... I'm not.
                        "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

                        Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chuck


                          You can make light of friendly fire deaths if you want.... I'm not.
                          Glad to see you are not. Do you shed a tear for the crippled Iraqi children to ?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Marko

                            Glad to see you are not. Do you shed a tear for the crippled Iraqi children to ?
                            Nor will I use Iraqi children to try to score some cheap point.
                            "There is no great genius without some touch of madness."

                            Seneca (5 BC - 65 AD)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chuck


                              Nor will I use Iraqi children to try to score some cheap point.
                              Stop blowing them up and I won't be able to, will I ?

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