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  • Win 10 upgrade problems

    Problem :

    I recently upgraded an older PC which had been running XP but had serious configuration issues (printing was not running properly and it had to had a batch command redirect to the correct port; probably fixable through the reg. but easier just to do the redirect on boot). It hadn't been used for a while due to a bad LCD screen. Finally, after having a replacement screen sitting around for a few months, the laptop got the replacement in and worked again. In any event, due to the XP expiration, I had a Win 7 license sitting around so decided to wipe the machine and do a clean install of 7 as I didn't care about any of the software installed. It worked fine and activated properly and went through a bunch of patches. Looked good.

    However, at the end of the day, I realized that the machine was actually a candidate for a Win10 license which I forgot and had dedicated to another project which needed a 10 license. So, what the hell, a number of Win 7 to Win10 upgrades had worked successfully before for me so I just pulled the trigger on a free upgrade on it. Seemed to work fine and it even logged onto my domain successfully with an admin account. GTG, right? Loaded up my apps and then started to add printers. Weird, couldn't get my printers to load properly. Apps, programs, fine but printers, no. Made sure I was logged on as domain admin and system had domain admin as local admin also. All ok. Rebooted it a couple of times with different profiles, still the same result. Ok, it's an authority issue but all the authorities/permissions seem ok. Turns out, if I logon as the original machine profile/owner, everything works. But if I logon as someone else, even if that profile has admin rights, no joy. It was a steaming pile of netherwaste.

    Quick Solution :
    Normally, in the past, to fix this problem properly (ie, no worries) a full clean install would have to be done, a reimage, or a lot of useless and annoying reg hacking / permissions testing. But, in Win 10, there is a set of options in backup and recovery which allows you to refresh the machine to a couple of different states. Basically, one state is a machine which is essentially clean OS but retains your existing personal data like photos and files. This assumes that you want to preserve this data for whatever reason but that the OS is clobbered. Since one should backup the data anyways (and the recovery process asks one to do this), this recovery method is good if you're not sure what you've got backed up as it offers one a way out. Backup, backup, backup, archival copies jic. Running this option, yields a clean OS with your personal data stored elsewhere. BUT no programs or anything else you might've installed. Ok, 'nuff said.

    The other state is a clean machine in OEM condition which is essentially clean with no personal stuff, or programs, user installed bloatware whatsoever. Yay.
    In my case, I knew the drive was fine (had done a standalone root virus check, chkdsk /f /r and a WD disk utility test as well) so the OS installation was crappy. More than likely, the upgrade from 7 to 10 had screwed up something. Since the Win7 load was a clean load as well, it was easy to use the Win10 Reset process to get Win10 to a proper clean state. This process basically is a reimage of the disk (not a true reimage which would wipe the drive though) so the OS doesn't retain any of the original settings which are causing problems. Took me about 20-30 mins on a C2D 1.8 ghz with 4gb mem, 160gb drive, machine; no great shakes as far as performance.

    Result :
    Machines is good, software installs fine, printers and user/network bloatware is happy.

    Lesson : an upgrade is ok but a system reset will cleanup all sorts of messes that upgrades might leave behind. Won't work cleanly for you if you don't have your software bins around as you'll still have to reinstall all that. In that scenario, a true reimage is best. BUT, in either case, backup 1st!

    Caveats : won't work if your disk has been rooted or if it has physical problems.

  • #2
    Good to know boomer'

    I'm getting ready to update a Vista machine next week. It still runs the last few games I still play. I'm hoping to avoid re-installation of that stuff.
    Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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    • #3
      Win10, the world's largest beta test.
      Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
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      The best place in the world to "work".

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      • #4
        As some one who has been using Windows since W2 I just can't see why people get upset about W10. It's one of the better versions and I've had no problems with it other than it keeps trying no nudge me to use Edge. True I've had to go into settings and switch off all the stuff that MS wants to use to let them sell advertising but that didn't take long.
        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          As some one who has been using Windows since W2 I just can't see why people get upset about W10. It's one of the better versions and I've had no problems with it other than it keeps trying no nudge me to use Edge. True I've had to go into settings and switch off all the stuff that MS wants to use to let them sell advertising but that didn't take long.
          It wouldn't let me connect to the internet. Good enough reason to go back to 7, that and 7 works just fine, thanks.
          Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
          Hyperwar, Whats New
          World War II Resources
          The best place in the world to "work".

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          • #6
            Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
            It wouldn't let me connect to the internet. Good enough reason to go back to 7, that and 7 works just fine, thanks.
            No you probably just went back to some old settings
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MarkV View Post
              No you probably just went back to some old settings
              No, I didn't. The problem I had is all over the 'net, with dozens of "fixes", none of which work more than once.
              Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
              Hyperwar, Whats New
              World War II Resources
              The best place in the world to "work".

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              • #8
                Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                No, I didn't. The problem I had is all over the 'net, with dozens of "fixes", none of which work more than once.
                Originally posted by GCoyote
                I'm getting ready to update a Vista machine next week. It still runs the last few games I still play. I'm hoping to avoid re-installation of that stuff.
                I've found that running the Win 10 Upgrade Assistant is super useful in detecting basic issues with compatibility. It does catch a lot of stuff that can be fixed with a little research. Make sure you're doing the correct bit version for an upgrade, ie : 32 bit to 32 bit, not 64 bit.

                Definitely one of the things that is very important is making sure that the machine hardware has Win8-10 drivers available. For instance, the Lenovos I've had use particular drive controllers for SD cards, fingerprint firmware, and Intel board interfaces that sometimes necessitate going to the OEM chip manufacturer for the correct software version. HP has that happen also. Oddly, a Gateway ran great without major fiddling. Sometimes the motherboard integration drivers will fix other things that aren't working in Dev Manager. Knowing how the device > properties > details > property > ids (type) page and how to do searches for the correct id vendor is useful too. This is where I've found that hardware is getting kicked out of the market as occasionally gear simply doesn't have modern drivers around. And that's where a lot of people run into problems like Opana points out.

                The main thing is that the machine should be up-to-snuff as much as possible. Run the chkdsk /f /r, a CClean run with a scan (not necessarily a fix) of the reg is good too. Make sure there's plenty of disk, disk has been defragged, and some extra memory is necessary. An SFC /scannow after all that and then a Upgrade advisor run is good. Also, a weird thing with Vista sometimes is that a standard disk cleanup with system error / junk cleanup is good too.

                Now, I have to say that timewise, my personal preference is to actually do a full fresh install of Win ver. XX 64 bit. The upgrade thing is useful for retaining program settings or game progress; the only problem is that quite often, some junk you just don't want keep gets left behind. No choice but it's there.

                Originally posted by MarkV
                As some one who has been using Windows since W2 I just can't see why people get upset about W10. It's one of the better versions and I've had no problems with it other than it keeps trying no nudge me to use Edge. True I've had to go into settings and switch off all the stuff that MS wants to use to let them sell advertising but that didn't take long.
                Win 10 is actually kind of cool and a lot of great stuff that's available is just not around on Win 7 or earlier. I like it more and more.
                Last edited by boomer400; 10 Apr 16, 22:23.

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                • #9
                  Win10 does seem to use more RAM than W7 and 8 so if putting it on an older machine might want to get more RAM - but that's dirt cheap these days
                  Last edited by MarkV; 12 Apr 16, 14:26.
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                  • #10
                    Yeah, and this is where we start seeing gear that's dropping out of the WinXX cycles. Not only does the newer gear require more and superior memory, a lot of older gear just doesn't have the driver support. So some of my gear only 2-3 years old, requires me to use Win8 or 7 drivers. Some older stuff (5 years old) requires me to use WinVista drivers. It all works but the next gen stuff won't have any Vista or 7 support probably. Have to freeze the image at that point and move on.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                      Win10 does seem to use more RAM than W7 and 8 so if putting it on an older machine might want to get more RAM - bit that's dirt cheap these days
                      I've started doing some Linux boot setups on older gear that's perfectly functional. The variance between finding Linux drivers and older Win drivers is starting to overlap in time to deliver so going Linux isn't that big a deal (at least for small popular server hardware.

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                      • #12
                        Not wanting to touch Vista with a bargepole (stayed with XP back then), and being rather uneasy about Win 8/8.1 (so sticking with Win 7 after upgrading from XP), I hung on to 7 until I got the offer of a free upgrade to Win 10 on both my laptop and desktop.
                        After doing the upgrades several months ago, both of them are working fine and almost all apps etc that worked before still function now.

                        So I guess I can say my Win 10 upgrade was a mostly positive and fuss-free experience.
                        Funnily enough, everthing was perfectly OK right from go, including my printer (running off my desktop); but an old set of portable USB speakers that went with my laptop just wouldn't work any more no matter what I tried.
                        Fourteen bucks got me a nice and better sounding new set that works perfectly with Windows 10.

                        All problems of significance would seem to have been either not encountered in the first place or solved quickly when they arose. Can't complain about that.
                        Last edited by panther3485; 13 Apr 16, 08:33.
                        "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                        Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                        • #13
                          The free upgrade to Win 10 offer expires on June 29th. MS may extend it but there is no guarantee that they will and no announcement has been made to date. So if you are dithering don't dither too long.
                          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                            The free upgrade to Win 10 offer expires on June 29th. MS may extend it but there is no guarantee that they will and no announcement has been made to date. So if you are dithering don't dither too long.
                            I'm defaulting to a system that already works for me. Bless you folks that have found a way to get rid of Win8 without paying for the fix.
                            Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
                            Hyperwar, Whats New
                            World War II Resources
                            The best place in the world to "work".

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                            • #15
                              You guys can always turn to the dark side and buy a Mac then there would be no need to worry about all this MS PC crap.
                              "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                              "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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