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T1, R1, Prng 5: Greek Trireme vs Persian/Phoenician Trireme, 480BC

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  • T1, R1, Prng 5: Greek Trireme vs Persian/Phoenician Trireme, 480BC

    In your opinion, which of these two warship types was most significant, influential and/or effective?
    Feel free to apply those criteria as you please, along with any others you think appropriate.
    Note: Suggestions for some additional criteria are at the foot of this post.


    According to the criteria as you see and apply them, please vote for your preferred candidate in the attached poll.
    If your chosen criteria are significantly different from those suggested, telling us what they are and why you used them would be helpful.





    8. Greek Trireme, Battle of Salamis 480BC


    Triremes were widely used and well established in all the major navies by this time and represented what might be called the "mainstream peak" of galley development in the ancient period.
    They were so named both for the 3 banks (or tiers) of oars on each side, as well as for the fact that in their basic form there was one oarsman to each oar; hence, 3 men to each vertical file.
    As we might expect, there was quite a lot of further development on this general theme but usually, for practical reasons it did not result in more than 3 banks of oars.
    Instead and especially as these warships grew larger, the number of men to each oar was increased. These variations of the trireme were given designations based purely on the total number of oarsmen to each file.
    For example, there was the quinquereme; so named because there were five oarsmen per file: Two each on the upper and middle oars and one on the lowest oar (which did not have to reach so far).

    This first picture shows a Greek trireme ramming a Persian (Phoenician) trireme at the battle of Salamis, which ended in a Greek victory.





    This photo shows a full modern day restoration of a typical ancient Greek trireme.
    It is both a public museum exhibit and a working sailing ship, which occasionally has been taken out on to the sea to be sailed and rowed.
    Both the building and the sailing/rowing of this vessel yielded considerable information on what it must have been like to operate one. .. (Without the fighting, of course.)





    The same Greek trireme restoration, seen from the rear.







    9. Persian/Phoenician Trireme, Battle of Salamis 480BC


    Persia was not one of the major seafaring entities of its time.
    When necessary they either formed alliances with naval powers or hired foreign naval units as mercenaries.
    If anything, the Phoenician triremes fighting at Salamis on the Persian side, were of somewhat better build quality than their Greek counterparts.
    Their crews were also usually of the highest calibre.
    As we know from history, however, those factors did not bring about Persian victory at Salamis.
    Below we "see it from the other side"; this time, a Persian/Phoenician trireme ramming its Greek adversary.





    Photo below shows the forward portion of a very nice museum model, depicting a Persian/Phoenician trireme from this general period.





    Another photo of the same model from further back, showing the entire ship.







    OK now, my friends ... what say you?
    Which of these warships is going to get your vote?


    Suggested additional criteria you might wish to consider, along with any others you deem appropriate.
    (Note: Some of these could be considered already covered by Significant, Influential and Effective)

    Which warship type ...
    • was the best?
    • was the greatest?
    • was the most widely used?
    • had the greatest longevity in service?
    • was the most versatile?
    • represented the best value for the cost/effort invested ("bang for the buck" in today's language)?
    • was the easiest to operate?

    Any other criteria you have applied (please tell us what they were).
    38
    8. Greek Trireme, Salamis 480BC
    76.32%
    29
    9. Persian/Phoenician Trireme, Salamis 480BC
    23.68%
    9

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 19 Aug 17, 03:36.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    I just like the Greeks better.

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

    Comment


    • #3
      In the Roman vs Carthaginian pairing, I went Carthaginian as a nod to the quality of their ships.
      I could just as easily have gone Roman as a nod to the final outcome of their naval war against Carthage.

      This time, it's another close call IMO.

      I'll go with the Greeks on this occasion.
      This is particularly as it can be seen more as a battle of survival for them, rather than a battle of mastery over their general region.
      "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

      Comment


      • #4
        Who won the battle? Case closed.

        Comment

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