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Puller vs. Manstein (Round 3)

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    You can call all the real heroes of American history fake all day but there is a reason we revere them. Not very many officers in history are actually considered all that often by the guys who actually go through the ****. Chesty is THE exception because he was everything a Marine should be, and somehow he was still an officer. Rank is a worthless way to judge a man because that would mean that the backstabbing, blowhard pig Schwarzkopf (or the spineless prettyboy, Wesley Clark, for that matter) is worth something besides what he wrote in that love letter to himself It Doesn't Take a Hero. The Army's 'Chesty,' David Hackworth, died a LtCol without his medals being considered as far as they should have (I'd like to know which AC loving pogue denied him), but he was still one of the best Soldiers in our history. Even with the massive de-balling that was inflicted on our whole military, the influence of Warrior-Leaders like Puller, both Smiths, and even Vandegrift are what keeps the Marine Corps as the only instrument we can rely on to win in any situation.

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    So much for the quality of Marine Boot camp!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Now this is your funny of funnies! Marines didn't even make it into Korea until Sept 50. The war started in June 50. I'll give you the basics because it is evident you don't have much knowledge of the subject. So the Army made it from June, July, August and into Sept. with out the USMC even in country. So then the Corps gets in country at Inchon in Sept, Oct, Nov and it's in retreat. I guess your one of the ones that like to forget, most likley don't even know , that with out the scarifices of the 31 RCT of the 7th Inf Div the 1st Marines might not have made it out of Korea.
    We learn this stuff from the time we are in bootcamp and all through our training in the fleet. Of course I know that the Army was in country for a long time. Someone had to get its ass kicked all the way back to Pusan (and leave all of that expensive equipment behind). Things changed when the Marines showed up. So when the Marines landed at Inchon it did in fact relieve the pressure on the army and the improperly equipped RoKs.

    At this point Col Puller was only a Regimental Commander.
    Because he wasn't a ticket punching scumbag. He was put out for retirement too. That is only a mark against the establishment, not the man. They should have made him commandant. I'm sure the Marines would have been better for it.

    A commander that led his unit in to an ambush.
    And thanks to his leadership, saved the units there.

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    [QUOTE=Swampwolf;735111]29 to 1 odds, the Red Chinese never achieving their goal of destruction, and the Marines escaping North Korea to fulfill another purpose (after saving the Army from defeat all year so far, picking up the equipment they left, and taking Seoul for time 2 out of 4).

    Your grip on facts and history is frightening. Proving what I said. 29 to 1odd is beyond ludicrous, you do realize this I hope. 1st Mariine Division had appox 22,000 plus British Commandos's and the 31st RCT in and around Chison for a totall of appox 30,000. To come to your shameful rediculous 29-1 would mean the the Communist Forces would have had to have had Close to 900,000 in that sector. They barely had that many in all of Korea. They did have an estmated 60,000 which does make 2 to 1.

    after saving the Army from defeat all year
    Now this is your funny of funnies! Marines didn't even make it into Korea until Sept 50. The war started in June 50. I'll give you the basics because it is evident you don't have much knowledge of the subject. So the Army made it from June, July, August and into Sept. with out the USMC even in country. So then the Corps gets in country at Inchon in Sept, Oct, Nov and it's in retreat. I guess your one of the ones that like to forget, most likley don't even know , that with out the scarifices of the 31 RCT of the 7th Inf Div the 1st Marines might not have made it out of Korea.

    To this day, the U.S. Marines consider the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir to be one of the proudest parts of their own history despite the heavy losses. The Marines mauled the Chinese divisions they faced so badly that they had to be withdrawn from the front, and marched out in an orderly fashion and intact. However, often overlooked is that the U.S. Army's RCT 31 accomplished at least part of its mission. It successfully guarded the right flank of the 1st Marine Division, protecting it from Chinese attack for four days. If not for the presence of the task force, the Chinese 80th and 81st Divisions might have captured the key Marine base and air-strip at Hagaru-ri before the Marines had concentrated sufficient units to defend it. This would have blocked the only escape route of the Marines and other army units, potentially leading to a significantly different outcome. Likewise, the Chinese People's Volunteer Army considered the battle an honor, although they were not prepared for the horrible casualties they incurred. This campaign, with the simultaneous victory against U.S. forces to the west, was the first time in a century a Chinese army was able to defeat a Western army in a major battle, despite the heavy losses
    At this point Col Puller was only a Regimental Commander. A commander that led his unit in to an ambush.

    Now tell me about myth and hyperbole DF


    HP

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
    Chosin reservoir
    29 to 1 odds, the Red Chinese never achieving their goal of destruction, and the Marines escaping North Korea to fulfill another purpose (after saving the Army from defeat all year so far, picking up the equipment they left, and taking Seoul for time 2 out of 4).

    And, like Manstein, Puller is discarded for being an infinitely better man than the people he served.

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  • 6thInf grandson
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
    Chosin reservoir
    Cheap shot HP, next time you better quote the whole phrase buster or I'll, I'll, well, I'll be aggravated, that's what!

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    never lost, but, fancy planning and fancy retreats does not make a commander
    Chosin reservoir

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  • 6thInf grandson
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
    and why isn't your Jarhead capitalized
    Sir, I don't know, sir!!! I'll just drop and do fifty!!!

    I'm a disgrace, WHY!!!! WHY!!!!!!

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  • 6thInf grandson
    replied
    Pardon my simplistic thinking here, but if I'm not mistaken, despite all of his fancy shmancy planning, Manstein still lost. I'm not talking about the war, but the Soviet Union, the objective he was told to take ultimately. I'm not saying that Puller never lost, but, fancy planning and fancy retreats does not make a commander "oh so great". What impact that leader has on his men and future generations does make him a great commander though. I think Chesty got robbed. But as Forrest Gump says, **** happens.

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Hey Runt, who won this round.

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by 6thInf grandson View Post
    Hey HP, I bet that jarhead knows how to spell better than you, lol.

    Try these versions instead:
    Hyperbole
    Montezuma

    Cheers ole friend
    and why isn't your Jarhead capitalized

    Shouldn't that be past tense? As in
    knew
    how to spell better?
    Last edited by Half Pint John; 29 Jul 07, 16:48.

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  • 6thInf grandson
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
    CV said it all, legend/myth/hyberbole/hot air. Puller goes floating off to the Halls of Montazma.

    Erich von Manstein is heads above the Jarhead.

    HP

    HP
    Hey HP, I bet that jarhead knows how to spell better than you, lol.

    Try these versions instead:
    Hyperbole
    Montezuma

    Cheers ole friend

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Because that is a completely logical connection!
    If you knew how to read then you wouldn't have even said anything like this.

    So do you want to back up your point about Puller being only a legend and not a successful leader in three wars, and a brave commander who made the limp staff officers squirm?
    Last edited by Swampwolf; 29 Jul 07, 16:31.

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  • Half Pint John
    replied
    I'm directing that at Half Pint, who I guess is a short guy.
    WOOP/WOOP

    Pint is a fluid measure, and for your entertainment, when I was on flight status I had a max allowable weight of 220lbs. Now entertain yourself and find out how tall or short I am.

    As DoD suggested lets keep this on topic.

    HP
    Last edited by Half Pint John; 28 Jul 07, 05:31.

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  • Daemon of Decay
    replied
    Originally posted by Swampwolf View Post
    Actually, now that I notice it, aren't all of the anti-Marines here also pretty hardcore anti-South too? I


    You sound like you are just an angry man. Othewise I can't explain how you can take everything as a personal attack against something you like.

    "If you think Lincoln was a decent president, you hate the South and Freedom!"

    "If you don't vote my way, you hate the marines! And the south! Because that is a completely logical connection!"

    I think we need to try and keep this on topic: Chesty v. Manstein.

    Leave your rabid 'Southern Defense' mechanism deactivated for a while.

    Leave a comment:

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