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Puller vs. Manstein (Round 3)

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  • #46
    Swampwolf. Boy i dont even know how to respond to you, but ill give it a shot. I never said i hate you or the Marines. I was perplexed by your earlier statement, hence my question to you, now after reading some of your posts in other parts of this forum i know all i need to know about you.

    As for me hating the Marines you couldnt be farther from the truth. You see my Avatar? Thats my Dad. He was in the 2nd Battalion, 25th Regiment, 4th Marine Division during WWII. He fought on Siapan, Tinian & Iwo Jima. He was Wounded in Action and recieved the Bronze Star for Valor on Iwo Jima. Im very proud of my Dads Marine service.

    You have alot to learn about people. Just because someone doesnt agree with your position in an argument over which General is better, doesnt mean they hate the one you like. Thats the argument of an 8 year old. They same holds true for yourself. Just because someone argues with you over a subject, it doesnt mean they hate you.

    Your one of those types of people that have enough knowledge and hate that you are dangerous to the uninitiated historical minds out there. You spread your messages and propaganda thats sprinkled with truths, half truths, sterotypes and outright BS. People like you, and the BS that you spread, is the reason why there is still anamosity about the Civil War in this country to this very day.
    Last edited by KGPanzerschrecK; 27 Jul 07, 00:53.
    http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...200pixwide.jpg

    Kampfgruppe - A Wargaming Clan Since 1998

    NorbertSnyderJr.com

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    • #47
      You have alot to learn about people. Just because someone doesnt agree with your position in an argument over which General is better, doesnt mean they hate the one you like. Thats the argument of an 8 year old. They same holds true for yourself. Just because someone argues with you over a subject, it doesnt mean they hate you.
      I'm directing that at Half Pint, who I guess is a short guy.

      The reason people have animosity I have explained elsewhere. It has a lot more to do with the stereotypes you people pervade about us and the violence you start over your lies. The only one I would put in danger are our country's enemies.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Swampwolf View Post
        Actually, now that I notice it, aren't all of the anti-Marines here also pretty hardcore anti-South too? I


        You sound like you are just an angry man. Othewise I can't explain how you can take everything as a personal attack against something you like.

        "If you think Lincoln was a decent president, you hate the South and Freedom!"

        "If you don't vote my way, you hate the marines! And the south! Because that is a completely logical connection!"

        I think we need to try and keep this on topic: Chesty v. Manstein.

        Leave your rabid 'Southern Defense' mechanism deactivated for a while.

        Comment


        • #49
          I'm directing that at Half Pint, who I guess is a short guy.
          WOOP/WOOP

          Pint is a fluid measure, and for your entertainment, when I was on flight status I had a max allowable weight of 220lbs. Now entertain yourself and find out how tall or short I am.

          As DoD suggested lets keep this on topic.

          HP
          Last edited by Half Pint John; 28 Jul 07, 04:31.
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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          • #50
            Because that is a completely logical connection!
            If you knew how to read then you wouldn't have even said anything like this.

            So do you want to back up your point about Puller being only a legend and not a successful leader in three wars, and a brave commander who made the limp staff officers squirm?
            Last edited by Swampwolf; 29 Jul 07, 15:31.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
              CV said it all, legend/myth/hyberbole/hot air. Puller goes floating off to the Halls of Montazma.

              Erich von Manstein is heads above the Jarhead.

              HP

              HP
              Hey HP, I bet that jarhead knows how to spell better than you, lol.

              Try these versions instead:
              Hyperbole
              Montezuma

              Cheers ole friend
              It's my firm conviction that when Uncle Sam calls, by God we go, and we do the best that we can. - R. Lee Ermey

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by 6thInf grandson View Post
                Hey HP, I bet that jarhead knows how to spell better than you, lol.

                Try these versions instead:
                Hyperbole
                Montezuma

                Cheers ole friend
                and why isn't your Jarhead capitalized

                Shouldn't that be past tense? As in
                knew
                how to spell better?
                Last edited by Half Pint John; 29 Jul 07, 15:48.
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Hey Runt, who won this round.
                  "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                  Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                  you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Pardon my simplistic thinking here, but if I'm not mistaken, despite all of his fancy shmancy planning, Manstein still lost. I'm not talking about the war, but the Soviet Union, the objective he was told to take ultimately. I'm not saying that Puller never lost, but, fancy planning and fancy retreats does not make a commander "oh so great". What impact that leader has on his men and future generations does make him a great commander though. I think Chesty got robbed. But as Forrest Gump says, **** happens.
                    It's my firm conviction that when Uncle Sam calls, by God we go, and we do the best that we can. - R. Lee Ermey

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
                      and why isn't your Jarhead capitalized
                      Sir, I don't know, sir!!! I'll just drop and do fifty!!!

                      I'm a disgrace, WHY!!!! WHY!!!!!!
                      It's my firm conviction that when Uncle Sam calls, by God we go, and we do the best that we can. - R. Lee Ermey

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        never lost, but, fancy planning and fancy retreats does not make a commander
                        Chosin reservoir
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
                          Chosin reservoir
                          Cheap shot HP, next time you better quote the whole phrase buster or I'll, I'll, well, I'll be aggravated, that's what!
                          It's my firm conviction that when Uncle Sam calls, by God we go, and we do the best that we can. - R. Lee Ermey

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
                            Chosin reservoir
                            29 to 1 odds, the Red Chinese never achieving their goal of destruction, and the Marines escaping North Korea to fulfill another purpose (after saving the Army from defeat all year so far, picking up the equipment they left, and taking Seoul for time 2 out of 4).

                            And, like Manstein, Puller is discarded for being an infinitely better man than the people he served.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              [QUOTE=Swampwolf;735111]29 to 1 odds, the Red Chinese never achieving their goal of destruction, and the Marines escaping North Korea to fulfill another purpose (after saving the Army from defeat all year so far, picking up the equipment they left, and taking Seoul for time 2 out of 4).

                              Your grip on facts and history is frightening. Proving what I said. 29 to 1odd is beyond ludicrous, you do realize this I hope. 1st Mariine Division had appox 22,000 plus British Commandos's and the 31st RCT in and around Chison for a totall of appox 30,000. To come to your shameful rediculous 29-1 would mean the the Communist Forces would have had to have had Close to 900,000 in that sector. They barely had that many in all of Korea. They did have an estmated 60,000 which does make 2 to 1.

                              after saving the Army from defeat all year
                              Now this is your funny of funnies! Marines didn't even make it into Korea until Sept 50. The war started in June 50. I'll give you the basics because it is evident you don't have much knowledge of the subject. So the Army made it from June, July, August and into Sept. with out the USMC even in country. So then the Corps gets in country at Inchon in Sept, Oct, Nov and it's in retreat. I guess your one of the ones that like to forget, most likley don't even know , that with out the scarifices of the 31 RCT of the 7th Inf Div the 1st Marines might not have made it out of Korea.

                              To this day, the U.S. Marines consider the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir to be one of the proudest parts of their own history despite the heavy losses. The Marines mauled the Chinese divisions they faced so badly that they had to be withdrawn from the front, and marched out in an orderly fashion and intact. However, often overlooked is that the U.S. Army's RCT 31 accomplished at least part of its mission. It successfully guarded the right flank of the 1st Marine Division, protecting it from Chinese attack for four days. If not for the presence of the task force, the Chinese 80th and 81st Divisions might have captured the key Marine base and air-strip at Hagaru-ri before the Marines had concentrated sufficient units to defend it. This would have blocked the only escape route of the Marines and other army units, potentially leading to a significantly different outcome. Likewise, the Chinese People's Volunteer Army considered the battle an honor, although they were not prepared for the horrible casualties they incurred. This campaign, with the simultaneous victory against U.S. forces to the west, was the first time in a century a Chinese army was able to defeat a Western army in a major battle, despite the heavy losses
                              At this point Col Puller was only a Regimental Commander. A commander that led his unit in to an ambush.

                              Now tell me about myth and hyperbole DF


                              HP
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Now this is your funny of funnies! Marines didn't even make it into Korea until Sept 50. The war started in June 50. I'll give you the basics because it is evident you don't have much knowledge of the subject. So the Army made it from June, July, August and into Sept. with out the USMC even in country. So then the Corps gets in country at Inchon in Sept, Oct, Nov and it's in retreat. I guess your one of the ones that like to forget, most likley don't even know , that with out the scarifices of the 31 RCT of the 7th Inf Div the 1st Marines might not have made it out of Korea.
                                We learn this stuff from the time we are in bootcamp and all through our training in the fleet. Of course I know that the Army was in country for a long time. Someone had to get its ass kicked all the way back to Pusan (and leave all of that expensive equipment behind). Things changed when the Marines showed up. So when the Marines landed at Inchon it did in fact relieve the pressure on the army and the improperly equipped RoKs.

                                At this point Col Puller was only a Regimental Commander.
                                Because he wasn't a ticket punching scumbag. He was put out for retirement too. That is only a mark against the establishment, not the man. They should have made him commandant. I'm sure the Marines would have been better for it.

                                A commander that led his unit in to an ambush.
                                And thanks to his leadership, saved the units there.

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