Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rnd 4 - T-34 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Rnd 4 - T-34 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)

    Round 4: T-34 (Soviet Union/Russia) vs M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)


    I think most of us would agree that there are few if any WW2 tanks that were as influential as the T-34. Certainly, it had a profound impact on the Germans when they encountered it on the battlefield; and by way of response the influence of the T-34 on German tank design - most notably in the Panther - is well known. Most of us, I think, would also acknowledge that the T-34 was - flaws notwithstanding - an effective solution for the Soviets. Furthermore, it was manufactured and fielded in such large numbers that its overall significance cannot be ignored.

    The Abrams has performed extremely well and can be considered very much a proven design. Beside the USA, a handful of other countries – including Australia – have taken it into service. At the time of introduction, Abrams represented a significant step forward for US armoured forces and if there was any doubt about them being “at the cutting edge” before it arrived, there was certainly none afterwards. The M1 Abrams has been built in substantial numbers and is widely regarded as one of the top handful of modern MBTs.

    These two tanks are from quite different eras but each, in its own time, represents something quite special and - unquestionably in both cases - very significant as well as influential. The question for you guys: Which of these two candidates gets to the Semi-Final? T-34 or Abrams? It's up to you!


    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #28 - T-34 (Soviet Union/Russia)

    Service Entry – 1940
    Weight – 26.5 - 32 metric tons (depending on variant)
    Top Speed – 53 km/h (33 mph)
    Main Armament – 76.2mm or 85mm gun
    No. Produced – 80,000 (approx.; including post-war but sources vary)

    For further info, see Wiki here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-34#Mass_production















    Candidate #64 - M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)

    Service Entry – 1980/81 (initially with 105mm gun as the M1)
    Weight – 61-62 metric tons
    Top Speed – 67 km/h (42 mph) (governed)
    Main Armament – 120mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – 9,000+

    For further info, check these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams
    http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/















    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!


    93
    T-34 (Soviet Union/Russia)
    56.99%
    53
    M1A1/A2 Abrams (USA)
    43.01%
    40

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 05 Sep 14, 10:51.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Still the Abrams for me.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

    Comment


    • #3
      T-34 was more influential on AFV design in my opinion
      BoRG
      "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

      Comment


      • #4
        Can't decide yet. I rate each king, as far as this poll is concerned, in each of their respective time periods.
        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
          Can't decide yet. I rate each king, as far as this poll is concerned, in each of their respective time periods.
          Unbelievably difficult choice here. I'll wait it out also.
          "In the absence of orders...find something and kill it!" Lt. General Erwin Rommel, 1942

          Comment


          • #6
            Tough choice, but had to go with the Abrams. This vehicle defines modern armored warfare.
            ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

            BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

            BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

            Comment


            • #7
              I had to go with the M1 as well.

              I think of the T-34 and the M4 in roughly the same way. While the T-34 was exactly what the Red Army needed at the time and was a significant step forward in Soviet tank design it were not without its shortcomings and in some ways was an evolutionary dead end (Christie suspension, no turret basket). The T-54/55 was a very different tank from it's predecessor and was much more influential in what came after. The T-34 definitely deserved to get this far as one of the greatest tanks ever built but I don't think it can edge out the Abrams. The M1 is a world beater in it's time, the T-34 wasn't.

              Also wasn't the T-34-85 in this contest as a separate vehicle? That would make this just about the T-34-76 models, wouldn't it?
              "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

              Comment


              • #8
                Got to go Abrams.

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                Comment


                • #9
                  T-34. It won a world war, set a new paradigm for design was the basis of the entire range of Soviet medium tanks.

                  M1 Abrams is just a modern heavy tank, albeit a good one. It has neither been significant nor influential in tank design.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                    Also wasn't the T-34-85 in this contest as a separate vehicle? That would make this just about the T-34-76 models, wouldn't it?
                    That wasn't the intention and here, as well as in the previous round it's meant to cover the T-34 as a whole. (This is why pictures of both the -76 and the -85 are included in the opening post). However, at the end of the day I don't think it makes all that much difference if you want to interpret the match that way so please feel free to do so if you wish.
                    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Fair enough. I was just wondering since they were separate earlier in the contest. Thanks for the clarification.
                      "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by frisco17 View Post
                        Fair enough. I was just wondering since they were separate earlier in the contest. Thanks for the clarification.
                        No problem.

                        The main reason they were 'separated' earlier was that the T-34 was represented across two different time groups; WW2 and 1946-79. In the latter group it was - naturally enough - represented by the T-34-85 only; but in the former group by T-34/76 and -85 combined.
                        It is the representation from the WW2 group that has survived to this round; whereas the -85 'stand alone' in the 46-79 period was eliminated a couple of rounds back.


                        Originally posted by smallvillekalel View Post
                        Unbelievably difficult choice here. I'll wait it out also.
                        When the tournament started, most of the choices were relatively easy with the occasional harder one here and there. This ratio has steadily changed from one round to the next.
                        By now, all (or at least nearly all) of the IMO weaker candidates have been eliminated; with the eight tank designs represented in this round being arguably close to a cross section of the "cream". (Although I still think the Leopard 1 arsed its way into this Round and IMO it deserved to be pushed aside by the T-64 in Round 3; but then, things are not always going to fall the way I believe they should either, and I have to accept this just the same as anyone else. I don't think anyone participating in these polls will be likely to see all the outcomes they think should be happening.)
                        Last edited by panther3485; 06 Sep 14, 21:18.
                        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          T-34, no contest.

                          If a world war III is fought against major powers with real armored competition, the Abrams would not be the main battle tank. A more modern, more combat effective, and more efficiently produced model will be sought out.

                          The Abrams is a 'peacetime' tank and suffers from excessive production costs & lack of innovation over the years due to the lack of armored arms races. The manufacturers of this tank have been greasing the federal government for decades.
                          Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                          Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                          Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                          Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is a tough one. But if you look at the development history of the two one is evolutionary the other revolutionary.

                            The T-34 is a logical progression of the Christie based tanks of the 30's. The Russian progression is the BT series to the A-20 to the T-32 to the T-34.
                            While the T-34 made history in WW 2 with the Red Army it was an evolution of previous design.

                            The M1 represents the first of a new generation of "super" tank, if you will. It ended the dominance of HEAT at long range, made a mockery of ATGM so painstakingly developed from the 50's and 60's.
                            In the M1 for the first time you had a fast, well armored, and well armed tank.
                            In naval terms the previous generation were either battleships or battle cruisers. The M1 was the equivalent of the Missouri class. As fast as a battlecruiser and as tough and well armed as any battleship. It changed the face of armored warfare.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                              This is a tough one. But if you look at the development history of the two one is evolutionary the other revolutionary.

                              The T-34 is a logical progression of the Christie based tanks of the 30's. The Russian progression is the BT series to the A-20 to the T-32 to the T-34.
                              While the T-34 made history in WW 2 with the Red Army it was an evolution of previous design.

                              The M1 represents the first of a new generation of "super" tank, if you will. It ended the dominance of HEAT at long range, made a mockery of ATGM so painstakingly developed from the 50's and 60's.
                              In the M1 for the first time you had a fast, well armored, and well armed tank.

                              In naval terms the previous generation were either battleships or battle cruisers. The M1 was the equivalent of the Missouri class. As fast as a battlecruiser and as tough and well armed as any battleship. It changed the face of armored warfare.
                              I agree the M1 Abrams certainly has those attributes but was it truly the first of the modern MBTs to do so? I always thought Leopard 2 entered service before the M1? Or am I wrong about that?
                              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X