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Rnd 4 - Renault FT-17 (France) vs Leopard 2 (Germany)

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  • #31
    Originally posted by andrewza View Post
    They still lost. Thick armour is not what makes a tank good or bad. French tanks of WW2 had good armour but where unrelbil, used poorly, and where in the end beaten by the lighter faster german tanks that had seprat comanders and radios.
    Actually, I think some of the French tanks were very good and at times, French tank units gave the Germans some very hairy moments.

    The French didn't lose because of the quality of their tanks as such. There were other, more significant factors at play here. If German victory had depended on the quality of German tanks as a primary factor, then IMO they would have lost the 1940 French campaign.

    With regard to radios is tanks: In the first Russian campaign (Barbarossa), IIRC the Soviet armoured force suffered a serious shortage of radios so that even though the T-34, for example, could carry a radio, often they simply were not available at that time. This is not a reflection on the tank itself.

    Whether the French too were short of radios or simply decided not to fit them, this does not make for bad tanks. However, it easily can, and probably would, often reduce their effectiveness if radios were not fitted.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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    • #32
      Don't forget, in 1939 most of the Panzers only had FuG1 Receive only sets, with only commanders tanks with transmit capability: at that were short range, 2 km ideal.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Marathag View Post
        Don't forget, in 1939 most of the Panzers only had FuG1 Receive only sets, with only commanders tanks with transmit capability: at that were short range, 2 km ideal.
        Did it made us cheese eater surrending monkeys ??
        That rug really tied the room together

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        • #34
          Originally posted by sebfrench76 View Post
          Did it made us cheese eater surrending monkeys ??
          My wife is probably a cheese eater surrender whatever. But then she's Belgian. And certainly not the sort of person worth marrying being a French speaker. Er.......
          How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
          Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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          • #35
            Originally posted by andrewza View Post
            They still lost. Thick armour is not what makes a tank good or bad. French tanks of WW2 had good armour but where unrelbil, used poorly, and where in the end beaten by the lighter faster german tanks that had seprat comanders and radios.
            No
            Paks and Luftwaffe beated them.
            That rug really tied the room together

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            • #36
              Seb,

              Are you really saying that 37mm PAKs are what beat the French Tanks? I think these could only penetrate the light armored tanks. You would need a Czech 47mm (rare) or a 88mm FLAK to penetrate a Somua, or a Char B. The Luftwaffe was able to induce panic in some of the French Infantry units, but not all. I think many French tanks had mechanical problems and getting re-fueled.

              Pruitt
              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                Seb,

                Are you really saying that 37mm PAKs are what beat the French Tanks? I think these could only penetrate the light armored tanks. You would need a Czech 47mm (rare) or a 88mm FLAK to penetrate a Somua, or a Char B. The Luftwaffe was able to induce panic in some of the French Infantry units, but not all. I think many French tanks had mechanical problems and getting re-fueled.

                Pruitt
                Has I said relbliety
                you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                CPO Mzinyati

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by sebfrench76 View Post
                  No
                  Paks and Luftwaffe beated them.
                  Rommels Ghohs divstion was cut through alied lines with no need for airsupport. Though he did neef his 88mm. Doubt he could have pentrated so fast so far with french tanks.

                  The big indcastion that france got it wrong was that post war france went for light hard hitting tanks. Not slow land forts.
                  you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                  CPO Mzinyati

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                  • #39
                    The Leo 2 is a great tank but is no better or more influential than other modern Western tanks.
                    There is nothing truly innovative about it other than fielding a high degree of the three attributes.

                    The FT17 on the other hand demonstrated true original thinking,combining the attributes of previous tanks with a layout that is still familiar nowadays.

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                    • #40
                      Another easy choice

                      French FT-17.
                      "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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