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Rnd 3 Grp B - Leopard 1 (Germany) vs T-64 (Russia)

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  • Rnd 3 Grp B - Leopard 1 (Germany) vs T-64 (Russia)

    Round 3, Group B: Leopard 1 (Germany) vs T-64 (Russia)


    The Leopard 1 was built to optimize armament and mobility as the highest priorities, at a time when many designers thought it was impractical to carry enough armour to defeat the latest anti-tank weapons. Speed, agility and good hitting power were therefore being relied upon to a considerable extent. Although it has seen very little combat, Leopard 1 has had a fairly substantial 'peacetime' career, being used by more than a dozen countries.

    In his volume on the T-64 and T-80, Steven Zaloga describes the T-64 as, “… the most radical advance in world tank technology in the 1960’s …” Among the notable features, T-64 would be developed to incorporate non-metallic elements in its armour envelope; the first series-produced MBT to do so. It also would be fitted with an extremely potent 125mm smoothbore gun. However, it was not exported like the T-62 or T-72, being retained almost entirely for domestic use.

    For significance and influence, which of these two 1960's tanks impresses you the most?


    Only one of these two candidates can make it to Round 4!

    Which of them is the more significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #37 - Leopard 1 (Germany)

    Service Entry – 1965
    Weight – 40-42 metric tons
    Top Speed – 65 km/h (40 mph)
    Main Armament – 105mm gun
    No. Produced – 4,510

    For further info, check these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_1
    http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product152.html















    Candidate #41 - T-64 (Russia)

    Service Entry – late 1960’s (limited production); early 1970’s (main series)
    Weight – 38-40 metric tons
    Top Speed – 60 km/h (37 mph)
    Main Armament – 125mm smoothbore (115mm in initial batch)
    No. Produced – 13,000 (approx.)

    For further info, check these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-64
    http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t64.htm















    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!


    88
    Leopard 1 (Germany)
    52.27%
    46
    T-64 (Russia)
    47.73%
    42

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 10 Aug 14, 06:59.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Chose T-64 (Russia).

    Comment


    • #3
      Leopard. T-64 is just another in the long T-series without significant advancements.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #4
        T-64

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Leopard. T-64 is just another in the long T-series without significant advancements.
          T64. The Leopard 1 was just an unproven paper tiger with a nice shot trap.

          Paul
          ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
          All human ills he can subdue,
          Or with a bauble or medal
          Can win mans heart for you;
          And many a blessing know to stew
          To make a megloamaniac bright;
          Give honour to the dainty Corse,
          The Pixie is a little shite.

          Comment


          • #6
            I voted Leopard as more influential as it led to a re-design resulting in the Leopard2
            BoRG
            "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

            Comment


            • #7
              The first Leo is a bit like the the Churchill or Comet. It's a very good tank at the end of its technological limits.

              The dread arrival of the T-64 led directly to the M1 Abrams.

              T-64 should win here.
              How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
              Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                The first Leo is a bit like the the Churchill or Comet. It's a very good tank at the end of its technological limits.

                The dread arrival of the T-64 led directly to the M1 Abrams.

                T-64 should win here.
                eh?

                MBT-70 --> Leo 1 + Chieftain ---> M1

                T-64 big innovation was the autoloader with only 28 rounds. It was a response to the Chieftain, Centurion and M60

                M1 was made to deal with the expected flood of Warsaw Pact T-72s coming across the North German Plain and thru the Fulda Gap, not the few T-64s stationed in East Germany

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Leopard. T-64 is just another in the long T-series without significant advancements.
                  Yeah, the T-64 just featured an automatic loader (which essentially set the layout of Soviet/Russian tanks to this day), compound armor, and the first gun tube-launched missiles that were able to be used in a regular tank gun. Leopard 1 advanced the state of the art by...being a totally conventional design with thinnish armor?

                  Originally posted by Marathag View Post
                  eh?

                  MBT-70 --> Leo 1 + Chieftain ---> M1

                  T-64 big innovation was the autoloader with only 28 rounds. It was a response to the Chieftain, Centurion and M60

                  M1 was made to deal with the expected flood of Warsaw Pact T-72s coming across the North German Plain and thru the Fulda Gap, not the few T-64s stationed in East Germany
                  MBT70 did not lead to Leopard 1 or Chieftain, though. Development of the Leopard 1 was initiated in 1955, and the first tanks were accepted in 1965. Chieftain began life in 1956 as the medium gun tank no.2 family of vehicles that was expected to replace Centurion. MBT70 development began in the mid-60s.

                  Work on T-64 also predated Chieftain's and M60's introduction, and was aiming to produce a vehicle about the size and weight of the T-54 while having more armor and firepower. Work on Ob.430 began in 1958, while M60 was first accepted in 1960 and Chieftain Mk.I didn't enter service until November 1966.

                  Work on what was to become the M1 began after the cancellation of XM803 in December 1971; T-72 didn't enter production until 1972, of course. Knowledge of Soviet tanks at the time was very hazy; knowing that T-72 was to be more numerous and therefore designing the XM1 prototypes to specifically counter it would be asking for clairvoyance, I think.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    T-64 - composite armour, autoloader, scared the shyte out of NATO planners.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      T64. Just because it scared NATO well the LEO1 did not not scary the war saw pact.
                      you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                      CPO Mzinyati

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
                        "Yeah, the T-64 just featured an automatic loader (which essentially set the layout of Soviet/Russian tanks to this day), compound armor, and the first gun tube-launched missiles that were able to be used in a regular tank gun. Leopard 1 advanced the state of the art by...being a totally conventional design with thinnish armor?



                        MBT70 did not lead to Leopard 1 or Chieftain, though. Development of the Leopard 1 was initiated in 1955, and the first tanks were accepted in 1965. Chieftain began life in 1956 as the medium gun tank no.2 family of vehicles that was expected to replace Centurion. MBT70 development began in the mid-60s.

                        Work on T-64 also predated Chieftain's and M60's introduction, and was aiming to produce a vehicle about the size and weight of the T-54 while having more armor and firepower. Work on Ob.430 began in 1958, while M60 was first accepted in 1960 and Chieftain Mk.I didn't enter service until November 1966.

                        Work on what was to become the M1 began after the cancellation of XM803 in December 1971; T-72 didn't enter production until 1972, of course. Knowledge of Soviet tanks at the time was very hazy; knowing that T-72 was to be more numerous and therefore designing the XM1 prototypes to specifically counter it would be asking for clairvoyance, I think.
                        Good post and I'm inclined to agree. I think the T-64 was far more influential than Leopard 1 and I will probably vote T-64 here.
                        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          T-64 - whether or not T-64 scariness to NATO is played up (perhaps a bit like Tiger hype?), I don't know that the Leo 1 did much regarding this sort of influence.

                          Leo 1 looks to me like what was probably a simple plan to rearm Germany (or, the western half, anyways) with a working tank whereas the T-64 looks like it was trying out some new toys.
                          "A foolish man thinks he knows everything if placed in unexpected difficulty; but he knows not what to answer, if to the test he is put."

                          --Hávamál

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                          • #14
                            T-64 for me...!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh dear, i have no clue... I'll wait for more significant posts and hope they will influence me
                              One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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