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Rnd 3 Grp B - Centurion (Britain) vs T-55 (Soviet Union/Russia)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    Except the Centurion positively influenced the outcome of every campaign it fought in, and over decades. Can't say the same for the T-55. Has the T-55 ever won a difficult military battle? I can think of only one time Centurions might have ever ever lost out to T-55's and that was during an ambush.

    The real influence of the T-55 was giving the Western arms industry the leverage to pursue expensive projects they might not normally have got funding for.
    Which is why it can be said that the T-55 was the most influential ,albeit indirectly.

    There's no question that the Centurion was a far better MBT but that's not the object of this exercise.
    "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
    Samuel Johnson.

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    • #17
      Nick the Noodle
      Except the Centurion positively influenced the outcome of every campaign it fought in, and over decades. Can't say the same for the T-55. Has the T-55 ever won a difficult military battle? I can think of only one time Centurions might have ever ever lost out to T-55's and that was during an ambush.

      The real influence of the T-55 was giving the Western arms industry the leverage to pursue expensive projects they might not normally have got funding for.

      Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
      Which is why it can be said that the T-55 was the most influential ,albeit indirectly.

      There's no question that the Centurion was a far better MBT but that's not the object of this exercise.
      But the Centurion was already in service and capable of being up-gunned and up-armoured The T55 could only be down grade produced and flogged of cheaply to the Third World. The influence was the Centurion, on the battlefield and in being the first of the modern MBT's.

      Paul
      ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
      All human ills he can subdue,
      Or with a bauble or medal
      Can win mans heart for you;
      And many a blessing know to stew
      To make a megloamaniac bright;
      Give honour to the dainty Corse,
      The Pixie is a little shite.

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      • #18
        T-55 could only be downgraded? Isn't the last picture of the T-55 in the OP an upgraded one?
        "A foolish man thinks he knows everything if placed in unexpected difficulty; but he knows not what to answer, if to the test he is put."

        --Hávamál

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Super Six 4 View Post
          T-55 could only be downgraded? Isn't the last picture of the T-55 in the OP an upgraded one?
          The T-54/55 series has had a lot of upgrades over its many decades of service. But then, the Centurion has arguably had even more.
          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
            Except the Centurion positively influenced the outcome of every campaign it fought in, and over decades. Can't say the same for the T-55. Has the T-55 ever won a difficult military battle? I can think of only one time Centurions might have ever ever lost out to T-55's and that was during an ambush.

            The real influence of the T-55 was giving the Western arms industry the leverage to pursue expensive projects they might not normally have got funding for.
            That's a shed load of Pounds, Francs, Deutschmarks and Dollars being spent in response to a non-influential tank, then. And significant.

            The T-55 was sold to countries with crepe military training and sod all history of conducting combined arms warfare (or even the concept).

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            • #21
              I think of what the Israelis did with the Centurion in combat against the T-62.....no contest really..?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                But the Centurion was already in service and capable of being up-gunned and up-armoured The T55 could only be down grade produced and flogged of cheaply to the Third World. The influence was the Centurion, on the battlefield and in being the first of the modern MBT's.

                Paul
                If MBT means main battle tank, then arguably the T-34 or the M4 Sherman were first, being as they were expected to do all roles (the M4 Sherman especially). The Centurion had the Challengers and Chieftains as heavy hitters and the Scimitars as scouts.

                The MBT concept evolved in the 1960s. One can as easily say the T-54 and T-55 were MBTs and appeared concurrently with the Centurion, thus depriving the Cent of any primacy.

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                • #23


                  Significance:
                  The Centurion has IMO no chance at all when it comes to significance. The numbers of the T-55 are speaking volumes and (among other weapon systems) it was this Tank that made the USSR/WP so superior (conventionally) over the NATO for the decades to follow the War.
                  It's bad peformances in several conflicts are irrelevant, a badly trained crew will also lose in a M1, Leo2 or Merkava etc. The T-55 combined firepower, mobility and reliability.
                  WW2 showed us what a 'stronger' Tank like the Panther or Tiger is worth against huge numbers of lets say M4s or T-34s.

                  Influence:
                  while i tend to rate the Centurion as more influential, this contest is not as clear cut as when it comes to significance. The Cent was a superb Tank but had IMO one flaw: its low speed. Modern MBT are very mobile and fast Tanks.

                  Given the easy win of the T-55 in significance and to the more close/complicated comparison in influence i voted for the T-55.
                  Last edited by Hanov; 18 Aug 14, 11:39. Reason: clarifying the time frame
                  One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Galland View Post
                    I think of what the Israelis did with the Centurion in combat against the T-62.....no contest really..?
                    True; but with the (IIRC) possible exception of the Jordanian armoured force, the Israelis have been usually better motivated, nearly always better led, and just about absolutely always better trained than their enemies. That makes a substantial difference too, I think.
                    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                    • #25
                      That and the Israelis fight their tanks with the Commander standing up in his hatch. He can therefor see better than the T-62 Commander that is buttoned up and relying on Periscopes. Put Centurions on the high ground and send mass numbers of T-62's at them and you WILL see massive T-62 losses.

                      Pruitt
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                        Except the Centurion positively influenced the outcome of every campaign it fought in, and over decades. Can't say the same for the T-55. Has the T-55 ever won a difficult military battle? I can think of only one time Centurions might have ever ever lost out to T-55's and that was during an ambush.

                        The real influence of the T-55 was giving the Western arms industry the leverage to pursue expensive projects they might not normally have got funding for.
                        T-55 and Centurions served alongside in Indian service, and both gave very good account of themselves against US made tanks like early M48. Again, it comes down to crew quality.

                        T-54/55 had a very good frontal protection when it appeared and gave quite a shock to the West. Both the Centurion and the T-54/55 were primarily designed for high intensity warfare in Northwest Europe. Hard choice here.
                        It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by nikolas93TS View Post
                          Hard choice here.
                          I totally agree. I think it's the hardest one in this Round; at least, for me it is.

                          I ummed and arred for ages but in the end I went T-55, by the narrowest of margins.
                          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                          • #28
                            well lets put it this way, the ratel/eland 90 with there 90mm guns took out T55s, yes it was not easy but they did it. Hell one ratel20 took out a t55 with a 20mm gun, before getting blown up by a different t55. Where even though they where hit a number of times, no SA centurion was lost (except the 3 that suffered mobility loss due to mines) and no SA tanker was injured. The account of the SA tanks in Angola does not get much mention, like Israel they where heavily out numbered, around 16 where sent to cuit canaval and inflicted heavy losses on Cuban/Angolan T55s.
                            you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                            CPO Mzinyati

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                            • #29
                              It's like a GAZ vs a Rolls Royce.

                              Centurion wins.
                              ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                              BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

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                              • #30
                                On the centurion mobliety. Later models greatly improved this.

                                The orginal centurion had a 450km range and a speed of 35km.

                                The most common in serves centurion is the olfant MK1B it has a 500km rang and a 58kmh top speed. The most heavly upgraded centurion out there is the 62 ton Olfant MK2 with a 500km range and 65kmh top speed.

                                A chaly 2 has a 550km rang and a 59kmh top speed. Since the olfant is listed has a centurion and the form the bulk of all active serves Centurions. We can't say the Centurion has poor mobliety. Just saying.


                                http://www.military-today.com/tanks/olifant_mk1b.htm
                                http://www.military-today.com/tanks/olifant_mk2.htm
                                you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

                                CPO Mzinyati

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