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Rnd 2 Grp 4 - Leopard 2 (Germany) vs Merkava I/II/III/IV (Israel)

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  • Rnd 2 Grp 4 - Leopard 2 (Germany) vs Merkava I/II/III/IV (Israel)

    Round 2, Group 4: Leopard 2 (Germany) vs Merkava I/II/III/IV (Israel)


    Germany’s Leopard 2 is widely regarded as one of the World’s finest modern MBTs and it has seen some limited action in Kosovo and Afghanistan. It is conventionally laid out and has been continually improved since its introduction to service in 1979/80. Aside from Germany, this tank is in service with at least 15 different countries. Leopard 2 continues to combine the key attributes of firepower, mobility and protection to a well-balanced and very high degree.

    The Merkava is Israel’s own unique and highly distinctive MBT. It is powerfully armed and very well protected, with decent mobility. The layout, with the engine at the front, is unconventional but offers certain advantages. One is the extra frontal protection factor; another is that it allows the relatively spacious crew compartment to be entered from the rear of the tank and additional personnel – such as, for example, the evacuation of wounded – can be carried in an emergency. Merkava tanks have seen a lot of action and the design has proven itself very well indeed.

    On the one hand, then, we have the essentially conventional and extremely well developed & potent Leopard 2; while on the other we have the quite unconventional yet also highly developed, and very thoroughly & consistently proven Merkava; a tank that was - perhaps more than any other in modern times - "born in battle".

    Both of these truly outstanding modern tanks remain very highly competitive after more than 30 years of service. Which of them do you think most deserves to survive Round 2?


    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!

    Which of them is the most significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #53 - Leopard 2 (Germany)

    Service Entry – 1979/80
    Weight – 55 – 62.3 metric tons
    Top Speed – 72 km/h (45 mph)
    Main Armament – 120mm smoothbore
    No. Produced – 3,200+

    For further info, check here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2
    http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm
















    Candidate #54 - Merkava I/II/III/IV (Israel)

    Service Entry – 1979
    Weight – 65 metric tons (Mk. IV)
    Top Speed – 64 km/h (40 mph)
    Main Armament – 105mm gun (initially); 120mm smoothbore afterwards
    No. Produced – 2,000+

    For further info, check here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava
    http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/mo...el/Merkava.php

    Merkava I


    Merkava II


    Merkava IIID undergoing repair/maintenance


    Merkava IV




    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!

    95
    Leopard 2 (Germany)
    62.11%
    59
    Merkava I/II/III/IV (Israel)
    37.89%
    36

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 26 Jul 14, 06:15.
    "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

  • #2
    Leopard 2
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

    Comment


    • #3
      leopard 2 wins
      you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

      CPO Mzinyati

      Comment


      • #4
        Leopard 2 (Germany)

        Comment


        • #5
          If I had to go into battle, I'd want to command a Leo 2.

          But that isn't the question is it?

          Like the M1 Abrams, the Leopard 2 could well turn out to be an end point in MBT design based on high cost and declining perception of need.

          While so far limited to IDF use, the additional functionality of the Merkava might yet inspire a more generalist AVF in the future.
          Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

          Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think you can do more things with the Merkava.

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

            Comment


            • #7
              Merkava series for me.
              "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
              Ernest Hemingway.

              In english "silence" means yelling louder than everyone else.

              Comment


              • #8
                Following my reasoning for voting 'against' the Merk last round (which of course, I have nothing against the Merk!), I would have to vote for the Leo 2 because it is used by those ~15 other countries whereas the Merk stays home.

                As Panther and I were briefly discussing though, the Merk is significant in it's own ways.

                But I'm gonna have to go with the Leo 2. The first Leo 2 picture looks kinda similar to the Japanese Type 90 doesn't it? I believe Germans did help the Japanese with that tank so it seems to have been influential. Or maybe certain, internal, aspects of the Type 90 are influenced from what the Leo 2 has?

                Plus while the Merk does have the APC 'ability,' the Leo 2 has the 'ability' to basically submarine across rivers. Not sure if those 2 abilities are equal or not--I suppose they might just be of equal importance to the region they were originally intended to be used in.

                I will pretty much eat my words if/when the Merk's APC aspect finds its way into future tank designs.
                "A foolish man thinks he knows everything if placed in unexpected difficulty; but he knows not what to answer, if to the test he is put."

                --Hávamál

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Super Six 4 View Post
                  I will pretty much eat my words if/when the Merk's APC aspect finds its way into future tank designs.
                  We can always hold another poll if that happens.
                  "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the Leopard gets a lot of press due to its quality but that is not our porpoise here.
                    John

                    Play La Marseillaise. Play it!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Voted Leopard II

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Leopard 2 (Germany)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Another tough choice, and not an altogether fair one at that. The Merkava is not in the same class as the Leopard II and was not designed to meet the same objectives.

                          The Merkava is Israel's answer to the need to carry troops into combat right alongside the tanks, and is the armor equivalent of the Soviet WWII "desant" squads that rode into combat on the backs of T-34's. While it is an MBT in it's own right, it is a hypbrid, and hybrids rarely match single purpose armor. It is, however, a highly innovative and combat successful design that is a tribute to Israel's designers.

                          However, the Merkava is one-of-kind, and not likely to lead anywhere in the evolution of armor, while the Leopard II is an advance on a fine design, on a par with major MBT's from other nations, and undoubtedly will eventually lead to further advances with the same Leopard line.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Merkava is much more significant as it's been in significantly more 'very hot' battles than the Leopard. The Leopard may look good but is it?

                            What bugs me is that almost every picture of the Leopard2 looks as if its only ever left its tank-shed to get its picture taken on the grass, get a bit of dust on the hull, sent back for a jet wash then tucked up for the night back in the tank-shed with a warm can of PX10.

                            Paul
                            ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                            All human ills he can subdue,
                            Or with a bauble or medal
                            Can win mans heart for you;
                            And many a blessing know to stew
                            To make a megloamaniac bright;
                            Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                            The Pixie is a little shite.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Super Six 4 View Post
                              Plus while the Merk does have the APC 'ability,' the Leo 2 has the 'ability' to basically submarine across rivers. Not sure if those 2 abilities are equal or not--I suppose they might just be of equal importance to the region they were originally intended to be used in.
                              Originally posted by JBark View Post
                              I think the Leopard gets a lot of press due to its quality but that is not our porpoise here.


                              Paul
                              Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 27 Jul 14, 23:48.
                              ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                              All human ills he can subdue,
                              Or with a bauble or medal
                              Can win mans heart for you;
                              And many a blessing know to stew
                              To make a megloamaniac bright;
                              Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                              The Pixie is a little shite.

                              Comment

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