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Rnd 2 Grp 4 - Challenger 1/2 (Britain) vs M60A1/A3 (USA)

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  • Rnd 2 Grp 4 - Challenger 1/2 (Britain) vs M60A1/A3 (USA)

    Round 2, Group 4: Challenger 1/2 (Britain) vs M60A1/A3 (USA)


    The modern Challenger tanks have filled the role of Britain’s premier MBT since about 1983/84 and Challenger 2 is generally regarded as one of the World’s best Main Battle Tanks today. The Challengers have both proved themselves in action.

    The US M60A1/A3 is a solid, very effective and proven design that has rendered excellent service for decades and continues to serve in some armies today. It can be regarded as a very successful design.

    Question is, which of these very fine tanks should be considered tops for significance and influence?

    Only one of these two candidates will make it to the next round!


    Which of them is the most significant and/or influential?



    Candidate #49 - Challenger 1/2 (Britain)

    Service Entry – 1983 (Challenger 1) 1998 (Challenger 2)
    Weight – 62-63 metric tons
    Top Speed – 56 km/h (35 mph) (1); 59 km/h (37 mph) (2)
    Main Armament – 120mm rifled gun
    No. Produced – 420 (1); 450 (approx.) (2)

    For further info, check here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_1
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2







    Challenger 2


    Challenger 2




    Candidate #63 - M60A1/A3 (USA)

    Service Entry – 1962/63 (M60A1) 1978 (M60A3)
    Weight – 48-52 tons
    Top Speed – 48 km/h (30 mph)
    Main Armament – 105mm gun
    No. Produced – 15,000+ (includes original M60)

    For further info, check these:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_Patton
    http://www.army-technology.com/projects/m60/
















    Consider the criteria with care! You decide!


    87
    Challenger 1/2 (Britain)
    68.97%
    60
    M60A1/A3 (USA)
    31.03%
    27

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by panther3485; 25 Jul 14, 10:11.
    "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
    Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

  • #2
    M60A1/A3
    Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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    • #3
      the numbers of user sold the M60 for me
      you think you a real "bleep" solders you "bleep" plastic solders don't wory i will make you in to real "bleep" solders!! "bleep" plastic solders

      CPO Mzinyati

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      • #4
        M60A1/A3 (USA)

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        • #5
          I love the M-60A1 and A3, but the Challenger was better.

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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          • #6
            M60A3 was really an end-point in US tank design. It had next generation fire controls in an armor envelop that was too tall and could no longer stand up to its Soviet counterparts.

            Challenger embodied the premium on protection that was reflected in later upgrades to the M1 and Leopard 2.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by GCoyote View Post
              M60A3 was really an end-point in US tank design. It had next generation fire controls in an armor envelop that was too tall and could no longer stand up to its Soviet counterparts.

              Challenger embodied the premium on protection that was reflected in later upgrades to the M1 and Leopard 2.
              Agree. I also voted Challenger.

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              • #8
                Challenger 1/2 (Britain)

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                • #9
                  Challenger: The M60 series was the end of the line for that type of tank, and its ability to successfully survive against contemporary Soviet tanks was in question for some time.
                  Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                  • #10
                    Challenger gets my vote.
                    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                    Ernest Hemingway.

                    Sapere aude.

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                    • #11
                      tough call

                      Tough call on this one. Even though these two are very close in performance/power/armor I'll go with the M60A1.
                      ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
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                      • #12
                        This was a very hard choice for me. M60 was a proven design, reliable workhorse and made in great numbers as well combat tested in some of the greatest tank battles after World War 2.

                        But innovation clearly goes to Challenger, namely for one factor: Burlington/Chobham armor, which clearly shaped Western tank development, in primis M1 Abrams.

                        So, Chally get my vote, but it was a close call.
                        It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

                        Косово је Србија!
                        Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

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                        • #13
                          Here's another case of a better tank versus one that had far greater influence.

                          The Challenger is a late comer to the composite / Cobbham armor race and then one that Britain adopted only because Iran ordered the vehicles then fell to the Ayatollah's.

                          On the other hand the M60 series represents the culmination of the Patton tank linage and has seen considerable fighting world wide proving its worth repeatedly. It is a sound, if pedestrian design of the 1960's that managed to remain cutting edge into the 90's.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                            The Challenger is a late comer to the composite / Cobbham armor race and then one that Britain adopted only because Iran ordered the vehicles then fell to the Ayatollah's.
                            Not true.

                            Burlington was code name of armor developed by FVRDE in Chobham, UK. Chobham also became common name of Western laminated armors. UK shared their knowledge with USA, which adopted it for XM1 project.

                            It was developed from the '60 and first plans were to mount it on Chieftan in 1971. Later Shir 2 tank for Iran had basically identical armor but it was designated Pageant.

                            Next stage of Chobham development is Dorchester, used in Challenger 2.

                            Hardly a latecomer. That title might go to Leopard 2 and Leclerk.
                            It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

                            Косово је Србија!
                            Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

                            Armored Brigade

                            Armored Brigade Facebook page

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                            • #15
                              The Challenger was a step forward in AFV design, whereas despite it's illustrious lineage, the M60 was the end of the road for that design.
                              BoRG
                              "... and that was the last time they called me Freakboy Moses"

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